RE: [Cz-L] The number of Jews saved by Traian Popovici

From: cornel fleming <>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:10:41 +0100
To: 'Miriam Taylor' <>, 'Anny Matar' <>, 'HARDY BREIER' <>
Reply-to: cornel fleming <>

Mimi..the number will remain debatable but the rest of your email is very
true and should be put on another large plaque!! cornel

-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Taylor []
Sent: 17 September 2008 18:25
To: Anny Matar; HARDY BREIER
Cc: Cornel Fleming; Czernowitz Genealogy and History
Subject: Re: [Cz-L] The number of Jews saved by Traian Popovici

Miriam (Mimi) Taylor <>

As to the number on the plaque, it will stay 19600, since this
is the number given by an overwhelming majority of researchers.
Is it the actual 100% correct number? Go to the literature, go
to the archives, ask the survivors, study, research and if you prove
otherwise, we'll have another plaque with the new number put up.

Sweeping generalities are generally not true and this pertains to the
present-day inhabitants of Chernivtsi, also to the Ukrainian people
in general. Look at the number of people declared as "righteous gentiles"
by Yad-Vashem and you will find that there are more Ukrainians so declared,
than people of any other nation. I am very sensitive to Anti-Semitism.
Yet in all my visits to Chernivtsi, I encountered none. Nor did I, in any
of my correspondence with Chernivtsi city officials or residents. The
opposite; since I do not speak Ukrainian, when I took a taxi to the
cemetery, I showed the driver the map of the cemetery with the printed name.
Invariably, these strangers tried to communicate and show their sympathy.
All the problems I encountered in my negotiations abut the plaque,
are due to various other factors. Currently in Chernivtsi there are plaques
to Steinbarg, Altman, Sidi Tal, Josef Schmidt, Chargaff. The paving stones
on the former Herrengasse include the name Czernowitz written in Yiddish.
The local youths who joined the volunteers who worked at the cemetery, were
except for one, all Ukrainians.

Yes they used to call us derogatory names, and what did we call them?
Have you forgotten?

And what have the Ukrainians to do with the Palestinians? Amos Oz, or not?
Our past history as Jews, whether as a nation or as individuals is sad and
painful, but this is not justification for vilifying anyone who opposes our



> Hi,
> It was a suggestion only. Of course it's up to the majority or to those
> decide to find the best way of putting the numbers on. He certainly risked
> his life saving those he did but, as Hardy put it "horse trading" , I
> is bellow our dignity. I always feel that dignity is of great importance
> us Jews. They don't really want us to come nor do they really like the
> of the memorial, who cares if someone saved the Jews instead of doing what
> he was ordered to do???
> I still remember the sound of their voices "jidan" as we so often hear in
> the world nowadays again "Sau Juden" "bloody jews" NOT A THING has
> the Ukranians certainly haven't, they killed thousands of Jews in their
> pogroms for ever and ever.
> As Amos Oz writes in his last novel, when as a child he heard "Juden nach
> Palestina" (we heard the same in Rumanian, Polish, French, English) and
> that we are in Palestina they want us to go back where we came from. I
> suppose Andy's idea that, that even if we were to go to the moon they
> like it. We have to face reality however sad it might be.
> In the end, do what you think best.
> anny
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Received on 2008-09-17 20:10:41

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