Re: [Cz-L] the missing link

In answer to the message by Wolf Terner:

At no time have I claimed that there were no Jews living in Czernowitz
before 1778. What I have previously written to the Cz.-List is:

In a message dated Sept.14, 2010:

> I very much doubt that there were any Jews living in Czernowitz before WW2,
> who's ancestors had lived there before 1778. Had there been any Czernowitzers
> with this much "Yiches", in typical Czernowitz fashion, they would have let
> everyone know about it.

And in a message dated Sept.15th 2010:
> Manfred Reifer writes mostly about the presence of Jews in Moldavia, not in
> the Bucovina and not in Czernowitz. Where he mentions that Jews were present
> in Czernowitz and vicinity before 1500, it is conjecture and he does not
> mention any documented evidence. Anyhow, even if there were Jews settled in
> Czernowitz and vicinity, they would mostly have been killed during the
> Chmielnitzki revolt.
>
> I quote from the article as translated by Silverbush:
>> The oldest source we have available to us and which points to the existence
>> of Jewish settlements in Bukovina originates from the year 1684.
> Manfred Reifer does quote documents which substantiate the presence of Jews in
> the southern Bucovina in the first half of the 18th century. About the
> earliest document proving a Jewish presence in Czernowitz, he writes:
>> A document from 1751 concerns the complaint of the Jews of Czernowitz against
>> the Prince Racovita because of the salt tax unjustly imposed on them.

>> The Jews brought into evidence old privileges granted them in princely
>> letters.
> This indicates that there were Jews living in Czernowitz some time earlier
> than 1751, but we do not know since when, where they came from and how many of
> them there were.
> Manfred Reifer cites other documents which indicate a Jewish presence in
> Czernowitz, between 1751 and 1775, but concludes:
>> The old Czernowitz Jewish cemetery has wonderfully ornamented grave stones
>> which for the most part originated from the period when Bukovina was occupied
>> by Austria. If one wants to use these stones as a guide to the history of the
>> Jews in Bukovina, one must place the settling of the Jews in Czernowitz in
>> the middle of the 18th century.

The name "Terner" may be of Sephardi origin and the Terner family was a
large family in Wiznitz. My grandmother's sister, Ettel Fruchter married
Fishel Terner and lived in Vaskautz (currently Vashkivtci). Both the Terner
family and the Steinmetz family, were Wiznitzer Chassidim.

Mimi
 

On 10/30/10 7:57 AM, "W.A. Terner" <w.a.t-r_at_athenaeum.se> wrote:

> Dear Hardy,
> Thank you very much for publishing the picture of the mazevah of Meier ben
> Jechiel.
> His and all the stones around have been fantastically carved, very much
> influenced of art of the first half of the 18th century, although so far
> away from central Europe.What a pity that so much has disappeared. Perhaps
> there are some more picture of this, Jewish past in Czernowitz.
> Thankfully,
> Wolf Terner
> PS: Miriam Taylor has, this time, forgotten to comment with her preferred
> theory of the none existing Jewish life before 1778.
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Received on 2010-10-30 14:47:35