RE: [Cz-L] Our origin.

Mimi, the word "sophistry" rears its head at this point!! I am also
slightly curious about your ancestor in 1858. At that time the town to which
you refer was not under Austrian control...it was ruled by the Hungarian
part of the Empire which did not recruit Jews to the regular forces. Very
occasionally they were selectively and after a medical examination called up
for about 60 days for basic training and then sent home as a reserve in case
of a major war. So have you any more bits of that story???? Cornel
PS Sent home because reserves were not paid so it made life cheaper for the
Hungarian military budget.

From: Miriam Taylor [mailto:mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu]
Sent: 22 April 2012 04:15
To: Cornel Fleming; HARDY BREIER; CZERNOWITZ-L
Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Our origin.

Cornel,

Ah, but you forgot about exponential growth!
King David lived in 1040-970 BC or about 3000 years ago.
Assume a generation to be 30 years.
Then since his lifetime there have been about 100 generations.
Assume king David had 2 children, actually he had many more.
If each of his children had two children, and if these, also had
two children and so on, then the number of descendants of king David
after 25 generations or 750 years, would have been 33,554,432.
Since there were not over 33 million Jews in the year 220 BC, it follows
that all Jews at that time were already descendants of king David.
All the more so in our time.

Mimi

On 4/21/12 3:13 PM, "cornel fleming" <cornel.fleming_at_virgin.net> wrote:

> Mimi...this is all very interesting. But,if all the people claiming
descent
> from David Hamelech got together they could fill New York city,with a few
> unable to get in!! Cornel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-49660045-8441035_at_list.cornell.edu
> [mailto:bounce-49660045-8441035_at_list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Miriam
Taylor
> Sent: 21 April 2012 18:04
> To: HARDY BREIER; CZERNOWITZ-L
> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Our origin.
>
> Part of my family tree may illustrate what Hardy was looking for
> when he asked about the migrations of Jewish people during the last
> 900 years or more, also why and when some moved to the Bukovina
> or to Czernowitz.
>
> Both my parents were born in Czernowitz, my father in 1907 and
> my mother in 1908. My paternal grandparents were born in
> the immediate vicinity of Czernowitz; my grandfather, Moische Reifer,
> son of Hendel Reifer,born in 1870 in Davideni, now called Davidivka,
> south of Czernowitz and my grandmother, Etti Reisch or Resch, daughter
> of Hersch and Gittel, born 1877 in Rivne (now called Revne) west of
> Czernowitz.
> As far as I know the Reifer and Resch/Reisch families had lived in
> the Bukovina for a few generations, but my father used to say that they
> probably were descendants of the Khazars. They had dark, very curly hair
> and Jewish noses, no Mongolian features.
> When DNA testing becomes cheaper, I will try to find out whether I have
> any Turkic ancestry, also whether Bruce Reisch and I are related.
>
> My maternal grandmother, Schendel Fruchter was born in Klivodin,
> a village north of Czernowitz, in 1883. Because her oldest brother,
> Hersch Fruchter was born in Stanislav, now called Ivano Frankivs'k,
> I believe that her parents, Mordechai Fruchter and Rachel Reiner,
> had come to the Bukovina a few years earlier from Stanislav, which is
> about 100 km. north-west of Czernowitz.
>
> Most interesting, for the sake of this discussion are the origins of my
> maternal grandfather, Shaul Leib Steinmetz. He was born in 1879
> in Nagy Boczko, near current Sighetu Marmatiei, Romania, and came
> to Czernowitz as a baby. His father was Israel Steinmetz, born in Borsa,
> pronounced Borsha, in 1858. His mother was Pesel Steinmetz
> (her maiden name as well), also born in 1858, in Nagy Boczko.
>
> Israel Steinmetz had paid a man to assume his identity and serve
> instead of himself in the Austrian army. Then, being afraid of extortion
> he thought that he should move from Borsa. For advice he went to
> the Wiznitzer rabbi, who just then had a visitor from Czernowitz,
> a Mr. Drimmer, who owned a wine wholesale business in Czernowitz.
> The Wiznitzer rabbi advised my great-grandfather to move to Czernowitz
> and arranged for him to be employed by Mr. Drimmer.
>
> A number of families by the name of Steinmetz lived in Czernowitz.
> But to the best of my knowledge they were not closely related to my
family.
>
> My true "Yiches" derives from my great-grandmother Pesel Steinmetz
> and her ancestors. She was the daughter of Aharon Yaakov Elimelech
> ben Shaul Yehuda Steinmetz of Nagy Boczko (now named Bocicoiu Mare)
> and Yutta Rachel Landau of Sighet, who was the great-granddaughter
> of Yehuda Heller Kahana, the author of the book "Kuntras Ha-Sfekot
> and a well known Talmudist and Hallachist.
> He was born in 1738, in the town of Kalush, or Halicz, then Galitzia,
> now Ukraine and was a descendant of Yom Tov Lipman Heller,
> born in Germany in 1579 and the author of glosses on the Mishnah,
> and a number of "Selichot".
> Yom Tov Lipman Heller was reputedly a descendant of
> Meir ben Isaak Katzenellenbogen, born about 1482 and a great
> Talmudic scholar. Peter Elbau and Emil Rennert are also descendants
> of the Katzenellenbogen - we are all "Mishpuche".
>
> Yutta Rachel was also the great-granddaughter of Ezikiel Landau, scholar,
> chief rabbi of Prague and adviser to Maria Theresa on Jewish affairs.
> Ezikiel Landau was a descendant of Rashi, Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaki,
> the most famous Biblical commentator, born in Troyes in 1040,
> died in Worms in 1105, killed by a crusader.
>
> Rashi, is believed to be a descendant of king David, who despite being
> born in "Eretz Israel", reportedly was NOT swarthy as a "Bedouin",
> had reddish hair and since he was of the tribe of Judah, may have had
> blue eyes*.
>
> *Look at Genesis 49:12
>
> anyhow: DESCENDANTS OF KING DAVID LIVED IN CZERNOWITZ !
>
> And now in Bloomington Indiana?
>
> Mimi
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of
 Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
 in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily
 the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
 or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
 an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a
 searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. As a result,
 Messages sent to the list are available to the general public within days
 of posting.

Please post in "Plain Text" if possible (help available at:
<http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/PlainText.html>).

To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at:

<http://www.it.cornell.edu/services/elist/howto/user/leave.cfm>

To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
<owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received on 2012-04-22 06:28:29