The Jews like the Germans did not integrate.
Later after getting rich they integrated: they became Germans.
Then the Rumanians came and the Soviets and they lost the compass.
All they knew is that good old Czernowitz was gone,
Old Jewish survival instinct.
The should have left much earlier....
Hardy
-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-120242304-3499476_at_list.cornell.edu
[mailto:bounce-120242304-3499476_at_list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of cornel
fleming
Sent: 07 March 2016 17:48
To: 'Nigel Siederer'; czernowitz-l_at_list.cornell.edu
Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Die Israelitische Matrikenfuhrung in Czernowitz
Hi Nigel...I think the Czernowitz records go back well before 1867. The
problem with the Jews was that rabbi-performed weddings were not registered
by the Austrian authorities so difficulties arose with names,family
connections,children officially born to "unmarried" mothers etc etc!!
Cornel.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nigel Siederer [mailto:nigelsiederer_at_good-foundations.co.uk]
Sent: 07 March 2016 12:59
To: czernowitz-l_at_list.cornell.edu; 'cornel fleming'
Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Die Israelitische Matrikenfuhrung in Czernowitz
Hi Cornel
Thanks. Historical references say that Bukovina became part of the Habsburg
Monarchy in 1775, which became the Austrian Empire in 1804, and
Austria-Hungary in 1867. Although I've just been relying on copies made by
the Mormons and held in Salt Lake City, I don't think there are any BMD
records before that last date, 1867. So perhaps the deduction should be
that 1867 is when the 'Austrians' began registering births. Possibly, the
birth certificates of my grandfather and his brother which are dated 1904
and 1905 were simply certificates based on the register entries from when
they were born in 1886 and 1888, in the same way that you can get
certificates in most countries at any future date but based on the original
registers.
However, there don't seem to be any registrations of deaths for some years
after 1867, and none of marriages. I'm still puzzled about what happened
legally in the early 1900s. What change allowed my great-grandparents to
undertake a civil marriage with Die Israelitische Matrikenfuhrung in
Czernowitz in 1906, even though they must have had a Jewish marriage in the
early 1870s which presumably could not be registered with the Austrian
authorities. Why did the 1906 'marriage' have the effect under an imperial
decree made the following year (1907), of legitimising all their childrens'
births, and thus permitting additional remarks noting the legitimacy to be
added to the birth certificates in 1904 and 1905? Does anyone know? Has
anyone else got old birth and marriage certificates from this period?
Nigel
Nigel Siederer
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Received on 2016-03-07 22:04:39