Dear Karin,
I would strongly recommend using a law firm. I am using one in Romania
called Darie, Manea and Associates, and have been happy with the service.
In my experience, without a fluent knowledge of Romanian the process is
impossible to navigate. Note that the process is long - even after
submitting your file (which usually needs to be done in person in
Bucharest) the waiting time can be enormous - I am still waiting for a
decision after almost 3.5 years. The law firm regularly contacts the
relevant authority on my behalf to “check in” on the status of my file.
Best wishes,
Daniel Ari Baker
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 at 20:20, Karin Perrin <karin_at_karinp.co.uk> wrote:
> Hello Janet
>
> I just wanted to mention that I just walked into the Romanian Embassy in
> London (after someone suggesting this) and asked to speak to someone about
> Romanian citizenship. I was simply allowed in and saw the consul right
> away. Possibly I was very lucky!
>
> It is very difficult to get through on the phone or on line so it was
> suggested to me by a Romanian who works for the consulate that I should
> just go straight to the Embassy (certain times and dates were suggested
> though).
>
>
>
> I had all possible documents proving my Romanian citizenship as a child
> with me, as well as all my parent’s Romanian documents (even some from my
> grandmother) and the reaction was polite, even friendly, and helpful. Once
> I get the UK documents apostilled and translated into Romanian by one of
> their official translators, I will be going back to the Embassy - they
> said it should be a matter of months; they will be sending photocopies of
> my documents to Romania as this cannot be decided here in the UK. As
> mentioned, they won’t be sending originals – these will be handed straight
> back to me.
>
>
>
> I think it depends where you are in the US. – You might find that if you
> are near an Embassy, just walking in would work for you too. A law firm
> will cost quite a bit and you may well have to send original documents
> abroad; I find this worrying although of course the Israeli law firm might
> be 100% reliable…. I would check first if they are sending original
> documents to Romania though….
>
> Hope this is of some assistance. Good luck!
>
>
>
> Karin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* J Alexander <janet10_at_msn.com>
> *Sent:* 19 November 2021 16:24
> *To:* Arthur von Czernowitz <vonczernowitz_at_yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Karin Perrin <karin_at_karinp.co.uk>; Benjamin Grilj <
> b.grilj_at_perspectiveast.com>; RUTH GOLD <glasgold_at_bellsouth.net>;
> czernowitz Group via cornell server <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [czernowitz-l] Marriage registrations
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Karin and Arthur!
>
> I’m in the US. I have my grandfather’s Romanian passport with a Nazi stamp
> in it which he used to travel to the US. Citizenship listed is Romanian. I
> have identified his birth certificate on Jewish Gen and I am waiting to
> obtain a copy of it. It listed his place of birth Clishcoutsi, Khotin,
> Besserabia in 1909. Does that make him Austrian, Hungarian Romanian, or
> Stateless?
>
> It will be interesting to see how it is listed but i believe it was
> translated from Romanian.
>
> I have my mother’s birth certificate so I think I can prove descent pretty
> clearly.
>
> There seems to be several Israeli law firms that have a cottage industry
> in helping people like me obtaining EU citizenship based on descent. Do you
> think obtaining Romanian citizenship is something I need to hire an
> attorney for.
>
> Best,
>
> Janet
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2021, at 11:10 AM, Arthur von Czernowitz <
> vonczernowitz_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Janet
>
>
>
> I believe that Khotyn was under Romanian rule between 1918–1940. Your
> grandfather was born in 1909 that could be a problem. First you will have
> to obtain his birth certificate. That could be a problem. You will have to
> prove that you are his descendent. Today Khotyn is in the Ukraine about
> 65km from Czernowitz. I visited the Jewish cemetery of Khotyn I believe in
> 2010 or 2012.
>
> I am a volunteer at the World Organization of Bukovina Jews. I know quite
> a few people who obtained Romanian citizenship and people who tried
> Austrian failed. They just could not get the paperwork required.
>
>
>
> Shabbat Shalom
>
>
>
> Arthur
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2021, at 2:26 PM, J Alexander <janet10_at_msn.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Karin,
>
> My grandfather was born in Khotin Besserabia in 1909 when it was under the
> rule of Austria - Hungary. He left in the early 1930s. My great grandmother
> was deported Transnistria where she was murdered.
>
> I also looked into Austrian citizenship but determined obtaining Romanian
> citizenship by descent would be easier. Especially since the Covid virus
> seems to have impacted the government’s ability to respond timely to these
> applications. Ironic to think that my escape route from the US is through
> Romania.
>
> Let us know how you make out.
>
> Best,
>
> Janet S
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2021, at 7:07 AM, Karin Perrin <karin_at_karinp.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello all
>
>
>
> Just to add to this trail -
>
> I also had a look at getting Austrian citizenship. As I live in the UK,
> after Brexit I also felt it would be good to have a passport for me, my
> daughter and grandchildren issued in a country of the EU.
>
>
>
> I have ancestors from the Bukovina on both sides of the family. My
> grandmother and relatives were in the Czernowitz ghetto. My uncle was
> deported to Transnistria. Many family members died in the camps. We have a
> document showing we were Jewish refugees, issued in Vienna after the war,
> including photograph of me and parents and brother – I could go on.
>
>
>
> Before I can even apply the amount of documentation required by the
> Austrian Embassy in London is astronomical – non Austrian documents have to
> be apostilled which can only be done in the country they were issued. For
> instance I would have to send the original certificates of my parent’s
> marriage and my birth to Romania. Even the Romanian embassy here feels that
> would be very risky to do so and I may never get the documents back as
> bureaucracy in Romania is a minefield…The Austrians ask for proof of an
> address in Austria before a certain date. The point I want to make is
> that the Austrian government does not seem to be at all helpful, possibly
> even obstructive, while publicizing that they are offering Austrian
> citizenship to victims of the holocaust and their descendants.
>
>
>
> Having tried to put together the documents the Austrians demand, I feel I
> won’t get past the first post and at this point, I am in the process of
> trying to get a Romanian passport for me and the family, since I was
> born in Romania. To my surprise the Romanian Embassy has been very helpful
> so far – will report back in due course if I have been successful.
>
>
>
> If that fails, I shall certainly try the Nationalfonds. Thank you for this
> contact, Benjamin.
>
>
>
> Best to all
>
>
>
> Karin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* bounce-126096242-87608252_at_list.cornell.edu <
> bounce-126096242-87608252_at_list.cornell.edu> *On Behalf Of *Benjamin Grilj
> *Sent:* 18 November 2021 20:02
> *To:* Arthur von Czernowitz <vonczernowitz_at_yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* RUTH GOLD <glasgold_at_bellsouth.net>; czernowitz Group via cornell
> server <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [czernowitz-l] Marriage registrations
>
>
>
> Dear Ruth, Athur and all,
>
> whenever you have problems with the process of getting Austrian
> citizenship you should contact the Nationalfunds for the Victims of NS:
> https://www.nationalfonds.org/unterstützung-bei-erlangung-der-österreichischen-staatsbürgerschaft
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalfonds.org%2Funterst%25C3%25BCtzung-bei-erlangung-der-%25C3%25B6sterreichischen-staatsb%25C3%25BCrgerschaft&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133834689%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OA4xsS%2FZUjcCPMJxW%2FrB2WJMw67JyUCu9hZSPzvDSfw%3D&reserved=0>
>
> There excellent colleguages working there!
>
>
>
> Ruth, I was looking at my database, geneasearch and the index at
> familysearch and have not seen your parents. Were they chassidim?
>
>
>
> Best, Benjamin
>
> send by my iPhone
>
>
>
> Am 18.11.2021 um 20:43 schrieb Arthur von Czernowitz <
> vonczernowitz_at_yahoo.com>:
>
> Hello Ruth,
>
>
>
> I don’t want you to feel bad.
>
> Let me tell you the story about my cousin Clary who lives in England.
>
> When Brexit was voted in, Clari decided to get an Austrian passport.
>
> Clari was born in Vienna and when WWII started her family run away to
> England. I forgot, Clari has a birth certificate which states that she was
> born in Vienna and she is also getting a Rente from the Austrian
> government.
>
> She started filling out forms I believe in 2018. Till today, there is no
> passport, every time there is a request for an additional piece of paper. I
> believe Clari just gave up.
>
>
>
> (Both her parents were born in Czernowitz)
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Arthur
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2021, at 10:59 PM, RUTH GOLD <glasgold_at_bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I have applied for the Austrian citizenship, but am constantly asked for
> yet another document. Unfortunately, as an orphan of Transnistria, I have
> none.
> The latest request is a marriage registration of my parents.
>
> All I know is that they married in 1922, registered in Czernowitz as
> Mendel Glasberg and Lea Katz Glasberg.
>
> Could some of you help me?
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Ruth Glasberg Gold
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *******************************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
> ------------------------------
>
> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject
> of
> Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions
> expressed
> in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not
> necessarily
> the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
> or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
> an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fczernowitz.ehpes.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133844653%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=G5MEgYCJeKlJlGeMMYWAbXS6fTMn0pnFyNWQGYUTILw%3D&reserved=0>
> that includes a
> searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in
> 2021,
> archived messages can be found at:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l_at_list.cornell.edu/
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fczernowitz-l%40list.cornell.edu%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133854611%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=RA3shLfPo0TTVES4cx9s5o1qlgPExzYtL3pf0U5g4cc%3D&reserved=0>
>
> To send mail to the list, address it to <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>.
>
> To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fit.cornell.edu%2Flyris%2Fleave-e-lists-lyris&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133854611%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BHuNEUIiYcP%2BMoDhpOBcckQ1b7ylgOyI62Mo4YrAtKc%3D&reserved=0>
> .
>
> To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
> owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> ------------------------------
>
> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject
> of
> Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions
> expressed
> in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not
> necessarily
> the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
> or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
> an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fczernowitz.ehpes.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133864559%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=xHWIbWFTr4ulVS%2BeIewybWMyQwzof9mcSK4hebJXu6A%3D&reserved=0>
> that includes a
> searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in
> 2021,
> archived messages can be found at:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l_at_list.cornell.edu/
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fczernowitz-l%40list.cornell.edu%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133864559%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=u45CQ9uc8y1H2f4w7OhY0KvPMZkfyPRJja2HiFFaTf8%3D&reserved=0>
>
> To send mail to the list, address it to <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>.
>
> To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fit.cornell.edu%2Flyris%2Fleave-e-lists-lyris&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133874516%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=jdFQ00CzAgdGbqNA5KfbMu6RqG%2BcuRLoua5Sq%2FMjGak%3D&reserved=0>
> .
>
> To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
> owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
> ------------------------------
>
> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject
> of
> Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions
> expressed
> in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not
> necessarily
> the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
> or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
> an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fczernowitz.ehpes.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133884466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=lycttJrDYPcj4XoQLFhOJMru877P9UZFh%2B%2FKm27r%2Fns%3D&reserved=0>
> that includes a
> searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in
> 2021,
> archived messages can be found at:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l_at_list.cornell.edu/
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fczernowitz-l%40list.cornell.edu%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133884466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=b8KFkCZ1HzAYQe04hM%2BoRUCjTXxsPSVZUE4otDVvldw%3D&reserved=0>
>
> To send mail to the list, address it to <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>.
>
> To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fit.cornell.edu%2Flyris%2Fleave-e-lists-lyris&data=04%7C01%7C%7C70088fa8ea1740ae26fb08d9ab77105d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637729350133894424%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=9tyoNToZoVkCCkS9UDtgkG7F10YiwDbyHW1yf7TVPO4%3D&reserved=0>
> .
>
> To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
> owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> ------------------------------
>
> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject
> of
> Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions
> expressed
> in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not
> necessarily
> the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
> or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
> an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a
> searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in
> 2021,
> archived messages can be found at:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l_at_list.cornell.edu/
>
> To send mail to the list, address it to <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>.
>
> To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions
> <https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris>.
>
> To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
> owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
--
Daniel Ari Baker
B.A., LL.B. (Hons) (Melb), LL.M. (NYU), Grad. Dip. Int'l Cust. L. (Canb.)
*******************************************************************************
This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of
Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily
the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a
searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in 2021,
archived messages can be found at:
https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l_at_list.cornell.edu/
To send mail to the list, address it to <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>.
To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at
https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris
To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received on 2021-11-20 13:30:13