Hi Boaz,
I suppose that nobody from the group even considered answering your
question. Up to now all second or third generation Czernowitzers were
interested in information about the whereabouts of their ancestors, births,
marriages, deaths, families, careers etc. All about facts. There are of
course personal stories collected on Ehpes, stories that might give an
opening to character traits of some parents or great parents, but your
question is so generally formulated that I doubt there is an intelligent
answer to it. Still, I decided to make a try of isolating some variables of
this complex endeavor, because I don’t quite have other things to do, and
given my age I might be one of the few who have personal memories about the
cultures you refer to.
I am placed locally and temporarily on the line between Sadagura and
Vienna. I/e. born in Czernowitz 1929, half generation between your father
and grandfather, geographically and more important culturally, also in a
town between them. The gradient from a religiously traditional Jewish
society of Sadagura to one more liberal, assimilated, although still mostly
concentrated in Leopoldstadt (the 2. Bezirk also called Judenstadt at that
time), passed through Czern., which had both characteristics, in time and
culturally, proceeding from Sadagura to Vienna.
The Yiddish expression for not giving in, in disputes is to be an Akschen.
The royal court of the Sadagura Rebbe, the internal fights and family
disputes, the case of the son Bereniu who was brought back to the court by
force over the frontier from Suceava (Rumania), are examples of this trait.
You may look up the History of the Jews of Bukovina by Gold.
As to Vienna, when I arrived in Israel in 1950, I heard for the first time
the expression “Besserwisser”, meaning somebody who knows better,
indifferently of what arguments you bring along. It was particularly
targeted at Jews coming from Vienna and I had the occasion to prove the
assessment personally. A Viennese Jew always knew better – decades later I
could confirm from personal experience that the phenomenon was not limited
to Jews, a good part of the population of the city “knew better”. Not my
personal friends though.
All this is of course to be taken with a grain of salt, it probably was
quite standard in the region and at the time.
I suppose the more important cause of the difference of opinion you refer
to should be attributed to the generation gap. Your father might have
accepted and continued the political opinions of your grandparent but
refused to be himself intolerant and as you write, avoiding conflicts that
your grandfather would have pleasure to express. Father/son conflicts are
often resolved by partial identification (political) and practical opposite
behavior i.e., being a nice person.
What shaped the characters of both men will probably mostly remain in the
dark. I am still working at the causes in my own life. You really have all
the time to ponder about your roots.
Best, Berti.
On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 1:10 PM B W <weinboaz_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi group,
>
> My grandfather was born and raised in Sadgura until 1916 when he and
> family moved to Vienna. He then barely escaped in 1938. I met him several
> times. He didn’t tolerate disagreement well, especially on political
> matters. My father, now elderly, is hesitant to express his opinion on
> anything, and conflict avoidant, except on politics. He’ll steer
> conversations to politics and then give an uninformed, rigid political
> opinion - almost like a test of loyalty. I don’t understand these
> behaviors, and I wonder if it can be attributed to the jewish culture in
> sadgura or vienna of the time. Do these behaviors ring a bell? Thank you
> for any information.
>
> Boaz
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*Wo Es war, soll Ich sein.*
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This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of
Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily
the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a
searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in 2021,
archived messages can be found at:
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Received on 2022-11-27 13:57:48