Re: [Cz-L] Number of those saved by Popovici back to 19,600

10-4-08

Dear Miriam,

Thank for recognizing and acting upon the unanimous opinion of the list
members who contacted you in objection to your having unilaterally changed
the number of Jews saved by Mr. Popovichi from 19,600 to 17,000.

I also wish to comment on an email you wrote on 10/4/08 to Anny Matar
entitled "The dishonouring of Popovici-the distortion of history", in which
you made the following comment: "Below is the definition of " righteous
among the nations", as defined by Yad-Vashem. Anny and Gary, please read
carefully".

This was of course in reaction to Anny's expressed opinion regarding
Ukrainian attitudes towards and misdeeds upon Jews in WWII, as well as my
expressed feeling that in dealing with Ukrainians, based upon recent
history, Jews should proceed with caution.

Miriam, myself and I am sure, Anny as well, are familiar with the definition
of "righteous among the nations". The chart you included of the number of
people declared as righteous among the nations by country, lists the Ukraine
at 2213. which number is the highest among the nations listed. Good point!
However, this begs the following questions:
1) what was the Ukraine population in 1941?
2) 2213 out of the entire Ukrainian population of ? saved Jews. That
percentage is ?
3) how many thousands of Jews were murdered by the Ukrainians? For each Jew
murdered by the Ukrainians, that is one Ukrainian "NON righteous among the
nations".
4) How many righteous Ukrainians Vs Non-righteous Ukrainians?

Now, while that is history and for many, if not most of the Jews who went
through the nightmare of 1941 in the Ukraine, there will always be "we shall
never forget". That is understandable. But as time passes and new
generations of both Jews and Ukrainians come into existence and the older
ones die out, hopefully they will forge a positive change in the
relationship between them. New generations are not guilty at birth of sins
committed by the prior generations. They only become guilty upon their own
adoption and continuation of those sins. No one is born with pre-disposed
hate and prejudice. Both are taught and reside in a vicious cycle. I do not
know the respective ages of the CZ administration officials, but I would
assume that most are in their 40's-50's. That takes them back far enough in
time to fall into the "grey" area, the point in time where the forces of
hate and prejudice versus those emerging of fondness and tolerance, began to
co-exist. Which of the two aforementioned forces that is inherent in each
Administration official voting on the plaque, is only known to themselves.

I read Bruce Reisch's email of today, wherein he wrote in part "I met many
outstanding Ukrainian individuals during my visit to Chernivtsi in 1998, so
I can't agree with any opinion that characterizes Ukrainians with a single
broad brush stroke".

While I think that Bruce's observation is very encouraging, I am of the
opinion that until proven otherwise, "caution" is the best policy.

Gary Rogovin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam Taylor" <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>
To: "HARDY BREIER" <HARDY3_at_bezeqint.net>; "Bruce Reisch"
<bir1_at_nysaes.cornell.edu>; "Eytan Fischman" <Fichblue_at_aol.com>; "Jerome
Schatten" <romers_at_shaw.ca>; "Marianne Hirsch" <mh2349_at_columbia.edu>; "Gary
Rogovin" <grcpa_at_worldnet.att.net>
Cc: "Czernowitz Genealogy and History" <czernowitz-l_at_list.cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: [Cz-L] Number of those saved by Popovici


> Thanks to all of you, for responding so quickly.
> You are all of you of the same opinion.
> Expressed and explained most persuasively by Eytan and Hardy.
> You have convinced me, I will write to both the designer
> and Dr. Bursuc that the number should stay 19600.
>
> To Hardy:
>
> I felt that I needed to act quickly, the designer cannot be expected
> to change the inscription at a moment's notice. Sometime, I cannot
> get hold of people as soon as I want to.
>
> To Gary:
>
> The issue of the substitute of "head for "mayor", in the Ukrainian
> inscription, the possible elimination of the Romanian text, have
> been discussed and agreed upon. No need to bring this up again.
> No need, without evidence, to suspect either the Chernivtsi city
> administration of interfering, or me, of compromising my principles.
>
> Mimi
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Received on 2008-10-05 06:33:56