Re: [Cz-L] Massacres in Bucovina and Czernowitz in 1941

Dear Marianne, Dear All,

Thanks for writing,

Radu Ioanid took most of his information from the ³Cartea Neagra² by
Matatias Carp,
but where did Matatias Carp get his information from? I know he kept a
diary,
but where did he get the information for what he wrote in his diary?

About the number of Jews saved by Traian Popovici, there is sufficient
evidence to know:
that Popovici had received Antonescu¹s permission to give 15600
authorizations to stay in Czernowitz
and that he issued another 4000 temporary permits on his own decision.

We also know that in the summer of 1942, the Popovici authorizations were
declared invalid
and renewed deportations started on June 7, followed by further deportations
in July.
This knowledge is based on documents in the Chernivtsi city archives and
corroborated in part by eyewitnesses.

As a footnote:
Radu Ioanid advised me to have the inscription on the plaque say:
³Traian Popovici temporarily saved 19600 Jews from being deported².
He wanted the plaque to give not only the truthful information, but also
³all the truth².
I did not follow his advice for two reasons:

1. Traian Popovici had issued 19600 authorizations and this number clearly
defines
    his good intentions.
2. Those who had remained in Czernowitz till June or July 1942, even if
eventually deported to Transnistria,
    had a much better chance at surviving than those who were deported
during the fall and winter of 1941.
   Many of us, I include my family and myself, were able to hide during the
summer of 1942 deportations.
   It would have been impossible to hide during the earlier deportations.

Mimi

On 7/9/09 8:02 PM, "Marianne Hirsch" <mh2349_at_columbia.edu> wrote:

> Dear MImi, I just checked the Romanian version of Cartea Neagra which Leo and
> I cite in our chapter on this subject and Carp confirms the figure of 2000.
> In fact, that is where Ioanid gets most of his figures. And in fact, a lot of
> the numbers are ambiguous as we know from the saga of the plaque.
>
>
>
> best, Marianne
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 9, 2009, at 4:45 PM, RUTH GOLD wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear Mimi,
>>
>> I know for a fact that Romanian soldiers together with the German
>> Eunsatzgruppen murdered in 24 hours, two thousand Jews and the Chief Rabbi
>> Mark.
>> Ruth Glasberg Gold
>>
>> From: Miriam Taylor <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>
>> To: CZERNOWITZ-L <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2009 10:42:19 AM
>> Subject: [Cz-L] Massacres in Bucovina and Czernowitz in 1941
>>
>> Reading "The holocaust in Romania" by Radu Ioanid, I have come across
>> information, I either was not aware of, or possibly the author is mistaken.
>>
>> For instance:
>>> > The Romanian army also executed 18 Jews in Tereblecea.
>> Is Tereblecea the same as Tereblesti?
>>> > One of the largest slaughters on that day took place in Cernauti, the
>>> > Capital of Bucovina, where two thousand Jews were killed by Romanian
>>> > soldiers working in league with local residents, gendarmes and German
>>> > soldiers. Two mass graves at the Jewish cemetery received 250 corpses
>>> each,
>>> > a third somewhat fewer.
>> By that day the author means July 5th, 1941.
>> Was the number of Jews killed in Czernowitz on that day, really 2000?
>> Or was it about 700, as the number of those buried in common graves
>> indicates? Where is the third grave?
>>> > German troops executed another four hundred Jews on July 9, setting fire
>>> to
>>> > the main synagogue with incendiary grenades.
>> Was "the main synagogue" the "Tempel" set on fire by pouring gasoline on
>> the floor and setting it on fire? Or was it indeed set on fire with
>> incendiary grenades? Were the 400 people executed on that day buried
>> at Bila?
>>
>> Please forgive me for bringing up the details of this gruesome subject.
>> Like Marc Cohen, I believe that we should know. I also think, that among
>> members of the list there may exist first-hand and second-hand knowledge
>> of events which no longer exists anywhere else.
>>
>> Mimi
>>
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Received on 2009-07-10 14:08:38