RE: [Cz-L] Revolution 8

Hardy...

You and Mimi (and others) experienced the atrocities committed by Romanians, Ukrainians, Germans, etc. during the Holocaust firsthand. I realized them by my researches. None of us needs to justify himself and all of us are continously engaged in bearing the Holocaust in rememberance.

But that's not the point. I'm very much concerned, that such - returning and useless - discussions, which started from undifferentiated generalizations, which I don't need to invoke again, are deeply discouraging for all those, who are looking for a forward-looking discussion.

Frankly speaking, for me it definitely is like that!

Edgar Hauster
Lent - The Netherlands

-snip-

al Message -----
> From: "Miriam Taylor" <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>
> To: "HARDY BREIER" <HARDY3_at_bezeqint.net>
> Cc: "Edgar Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>; "Josefine Koch"
> <josefineaz_at_gmail.com>; "Benjamin Grilj" <b.grilj_at_perspectiveast.com>;
> "Christian Herrmann" <cyberorange_at_gmx.de>; "Mark Wiznitzer"
> <markwiznitzer_at_gmail.com>; "Czernowitz Discussion Group"
> <czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2014 6:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Revolution 8
>
>
>> Yes, Ukrainians killed Jews, or were responsible for the deaths
>> of Jews. And so did people of all the following countries:
>> Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Hungary, Poland,
>> Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Romania, Croatia, Bulgaria,
>> Greece, Russia, the US and Switzerland and more ....
>>
>> I do not avoid reality, the opposite; because I have met
>> many decent, nice people belonging to nations, which in the past
>> mistreated or killed Jews, I believe in not judging the children,
>> grandchildren and great-grandchildren by the deeds of their ancestors.
>>
>> SVIT Ukraine brings volunteers to Czernowitz to clear
>> the Jewish cemetery of weedy vegetation. In Czernowitz, Ukrainian
>> young people join the foreign volunteers to work in the cemetery.
>>
>> ASF Germany brings mostly elderly Germans to eradicate
>> invasive trees and bushes from the cemetery.
>>
>> Mimi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2014, at 11:07 AM, HARDY BREIER wrote:
>>
>>> Did Ukraineans kill Jews or didnt they ?
>>> Why do you look for ways to avoid reality ?
>>> Hardy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miriam Taylor"
>>> <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>
>>> To: "HARDY BREIER" <HARDY3_at_bezeqint.net>
>>> Cc: "Edgar Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>; "Josefine Koch"
>>> <josefineaz_at_gmail.com>; "Benjamin Grilj" <b.grilj_at_perspectiveast.com>;
>>> "Christian Herrmann" <cyberorange_at_gmx.de>; "Mark Wiznitzer"
>>> <markwiznitzer_at_gmail.com>; "Czernowitz Discussion Group"
>>> <czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2014 6:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Revolution 8
>>>
>>>
>>>> The deportation of Jews to Transnistria, the horrible way
>>>> they were transported there, and the fact that they were either
>>>> killed there or allowed to starve and die of diseases,
>>>> was not the Ukrainians doing, but a Romanian plan
>>>> to decimate the Jewish population of Romania.
>>>>
>>>> Mimi
>>>> On Feb 2, 2014, at 10:34 AM, HARDY BREIER wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, and what good did it do ?
>>>>> Transnistria ?
>>>>> Hardy
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miriam Taylor"
>>>>> <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>
>>>>> To: "HARDY BREIER" <HARDY3_at_bezeqint.net>
>>>>> Cc: "Edgar Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>; "Josefine Koch"
>>>>> <josefineaz_at_gmail.com>; "Benjamin Grilj"
>>>>> <b.grilj_at_perspectiveast.com>; "Christian Herrmann"
>>>>> <cyberorange_at_gmx.de>; "Mark Wiznitzer" <markwiznitzer_at_gmail.com>;
>>>>> "Czernowitz Discussion Group" <czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2014 5:29 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Revolution 8
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, sometimes we can tell what our ancestors would have told us,
>>>>>> My maternal grandmother, born in the village of Klyvodin, near
>>>>>> Kitsman,
>>>>>> taught her children that you had to treat every person with respect
>>>>>> and be fair and just. Her children, in turn, talked about this to
>>>>>> their children.
>>>>>> She had learned this from her father.
>>>>>> When I visited Klyvodin in 2002, a 90 year old woman still remembered
>>>>>> and talked with great respect about my great-grandfather who died in
>>>>>> 1932.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mimi
>>>>>> On Feb 1, 2014, at 2:18 PM, HARDY BREIER wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nobody can tell what our ancestors would or would not.
>>>>>>> They aren't around.
>>>>>>> Cannot be used as reliable witnesses .
>>>>>>> Hardy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edgar Hauster"
>>>>>>> <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Josefine Koch" <josefineaz_at_gmail.com>; "Hardy Breier"
>>>>>>> <hardy3_at_bezeqint.net>
>>>>>>> Cc: "Miriam Taylor" <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>; "Benjamin Grilj"
>>>>>>> <b.grilj_at_perspectiveast.com>; "Christian Herrmann"
>>>>>>> <cyberorange_at_gmx.de>; "Mark Wiznitzer" <markwiznitzer_at_gmail.com>;
>>>>>>> "Czernowitz Discussion Group" <czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 9:03 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Revolution 8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My ancestors most probably would tell me, that generalizations are
>>>>>>> not appropriate nor fair, especially related to nowadays
>>>>>>> generation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Edgar Hauster
>>>>>>> Lent - The Netherlands
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 09:59:05 -0700
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Revolution 8
>>>>>>>> From: josefineaz_at_gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: HARDY3_at_bezeqint.net
>>>>>>>> CC: mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu; b.grilj_at_perspectiveast.com;
>>>>>>>> cyberorange_at_gmx.de; markwiznitzer_at_gmail.com; Czernowitz-
>>>>>>>> L_at_cornell.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even a Wolf in sheep skin is still a Wolf. The Ukrainians have
>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>> been Antisemites before the Holocaust after the Holocaust and now
>>>>>>>> .Just consider what our Ancestors would tell us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 5:54 AM, HARDY BREIER <HARDY3_at_bezeqint.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> All the information from Wikipedia History of the Jews in Ukraina
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>>>>>>>>> History_of_the_Jews_in_Ukraine#Independent_Ukraine
>>>>>>>>> Hardy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miriam Taylor"
>>>>>>>>> <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>
>>>>>>>>> To: "HARDY BREIER" <HARDY3_at_bezeqint.net>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: "Benjamin Grilj" <b.grilj_at_perspectiveast.com>; "Christian
>>>>>>>>> Herrmann"
>>>>>>>>> <cyberorange_at_gmx.de>; "Mark Wiznitzer" <markwiznitzer_at_gmail.com>;
>>>>>>>>> "CZERNOWITZ-L" <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 2:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Revolution 8
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hardy, where did you get these numbers from?
>>>>>>>>> They seem impossible:
>>>>>>>>> If in 2010 the number of Jews in the Ukraine was 71,500
>>>>>>>>> and they then were 28,5% of the population,
>>>>>>>>> it would mean that the total population was 250 877 ?
>>>>>>>>> And if in 2012 the Jewish population was 6.3%,
>>>>>>>>> The total population would have been 1 063 492
>>>>>>>>> So, in two years the population more than quadrupled?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mimi
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 1, 2014, at 2:40 AM, HARDY BREIER wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of
 Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
 in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily
 the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
 or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
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Received on 2014-02-02 11:55:34