RE: [Cz-L] Languages of the Ukraine

Certainly "Rusyn" and the English-from-Latin "Ruthenian" are the same word.

When Transcarpathian Ruthenia (Ukrainian: "Zakarpatyya" - or, for Czechs, "Subcarpathian Ruthenia" (Podkarpatská Rus) - belonged to Czechoslovakia, the Trans/Subcarpathian Ruthenians were THE Ruthenians par excellence, because they were the only nation (except BelaRUSians?) for whom the name was used.

The point is that "Rus" and "Rosiya" (Russia) are not quite the same word - the latter refers to Moscow, "the Third Rome"; it's "Rhosia" a Hellenized (Greekified) form of "Rus" preferred by the Tsars of Muscovy to maintain their claim that their state was the real successor of Byzantine-ally Kievan Rus - for Tolkienists, Rohan to Byzantium's Gondor - once Kiev had fallen to the (initially pagan) Lithuanians and (Catholic) Poles. "Rus" and "Rusyn" are originally the much more inclusive term, encompassing all eastern Slavs (i.e. those who say "g/holod" and "g/horod" instead of "g/hlad" and "g/hrad"): i.e. Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians, including the Carpathian and Transcarpathian highlanders.

Why Latin has "th" in "Ruthenia" and "Ruthenian", subsequently taken over by German, English, etc., seems to be anyone's guess. I think I'm the only person who's spotted that Arabic "Arthaniya" refers to the same place and its people, and this does have the English "thick things" th-sound, though only in a good classical pronunciation or in the Iraqi, Gulf, Saudi and Yemeni dialects - some Levantine, Egyptian or Northwest African Arabic-speakers would in fact substitute an s-sound. Possibly the Latin is (for reasons unknown) somehow filtered through Arabic, and the Arabic accounts were written by Persians or Turks, in whose pronunciation of Arabic the th-letter comes out as "s", possibly using the th-letter "hypercorrectly".

Charles Polák
mailto:charles.polak_at_bbc.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-112669542-3499287_at_list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-112669542-3499287_at_list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Miriam Taylor
Sent: 22 February 2014 21:24
To: David Glynn; Alex Denisenko; CZERNOWITZ-L
Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Languages of the Ukraine

If you look in Google for Rusyns, you will find that it is claimed
that the Ruthenians were a subgroup of Rusyns.
Possibly they once were.
Only the Carpato-Ukraine, the area around Uzhhorod,
belonged at different times to Hungary and Czechoslovakia.
The Ruthenian lands, are further to the east than the Carpato-Ukraine
and were for long periods of time under Polish rule.
That is why Ruthenian as spoken in the vicinity of Czernowitz
contains many Polish words.

As far as the great famine in the Ukraine:
The first famine in 1922-1923 was organized by Lenin.
The second famine in the nineteen thirties was organized by Stalin.
Kaganovich, a Jewish member of the Politburo and close associate of
Stalin,
while no more decent than the other politburo members, was not
the main proponent of this deliberate starvation policy.
1932 was a draught year and Kaganovich was responsible for
confiscating grain
from the western Ukraine in order to distribute it in other areas of
the Soviet Union.
I found the following passages on Wikipedia:

> Kaganovich (together with Vyacheslav Molotov) participated with the
> All-Ukrainian
> Party Conference of 1930 and were given the task of implementation
> of the collectivization policy that caused a catastrophic 1932-33
> famine
> known as the Holodomor.

Kaganovich did NOT deliberately plan this mass starvation, but:

> On January 13, 2010, Kiev Appellate Court posthumously found
> Kaganovich, Postyshev and other Soviet Communist Party functionaries
> guilty of genocide against Ukrainians during the catastrophic
> Holodomor famine.
I think we may legitimately ask why the Kiev Appellate Court took up
this matter
almost 80 years after it happened. Also why they did not at the same
time rule
against Molotov and Stalin.

Mimi

On Feb 22, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Alex Denisenko wrote:

> In 1930s, the present day Western Ukraine belonged to Poland,
> Romania and Czechoslovakia.
> The artificial hunger effected mostly the Central and Eastern parts
> of Ukraine, which are in fact known as the breadbasket of Russia.
> The hunger was planned and organised by Koganovich and Kosior,
> instigated by Stalin.
>
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Received on 2014-02-23 07:31:28