Re: [Cz-L] Languages of the Ukraine

Thank you Charles for explaining about the connection
of the words "Rusyn" and "Ruthen".
In the vicinity of Czernowitz, mostly to the north and west,
the villages were predominantly inhabited by Ruthens.
Please see the Ethnografic map of the Bukovina
drawn according to the 1910 census and accessible at:
> http://www.bukovinasociety.org/map1910.html
I do not know to what extent Ukrainian as spoken in Kiev,
or used in current literature differs from Ruthenian,
as spoken in the villages around Czernowitz in the period before WW2.
But our parents and grandparents certainly spoke Ruthenian
to the villagers. And the Ruthenian they spoke contained many Polish
words.
At that time the local people defined themselves as Ruthenians
and were so referred to in government papers and newspapers of the time.

Mimi

On Feb 23, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Charles Polak wrote:

> Certainly "Rusyn" and the English-from-Latin "Ruthenian" are the
> same word.
>
> When Transcarpathian Ruthenia (Ukrainian: "Zakarpatyya" - or, for
> Czechs, "Subcarpathian Ruthenia" (Podkarpatská Rus) - belonged to
> Czechoslovakia, the Trans/Subcarpathian Ruthenians were THE
> Ruthenians par excellence, because they were the only nation
> (except BelaRUSians?) for whom the name was used.
>
> The point is that "Rus" and "Rosiya" (Russia) are not quite the
> same word - the latter refers to Moscow, "the Third Rome"; it's
> "Rhosia" a Hellenized (Greekified) form of "Rus" preferred by the
> Tsars of Muscovy to maintain their claim that their state was the
> real successor of Byzantine-ally Kievan Rus - for Tolkienists,
> Rohan to Byzantium's Gondor - once Kiev had fallen to the
> (initially pagan) Lithuanians and (Catholic) Poles. "Rus" and
> "Rusyn" are originally the much more inclusive term, encompassing
> all eastern Slavs (i.e. those who say "g/holod" and "g/horod"
> instead of "g/hlad" and "g/hrad"): i.e. Russians, Belarusians and
> Ukrainians, including the Carpathian and Transcarpathian highlanders.
>
> Why Latin has "th" in "Ruthenia" and "Ruthenian", subsequently
> taken over by German, English, etc., seems to be anyone's guess. I
> think I'm the only person who's spotted that Arabic "Arthaniya"
> refers to the same place and its people, and this does have the
> English "thick things" th-sound, though only in a good classical
> pronunciation or in the Iraqi, Gulf, Saudi and Yemeni dialects -
> some Levantine, Egyptian or Northwest African Arabic-speakers would
> in fact substitute an s-sound. Possibly the Latin is (for reasons
> unknown) somehow filtered through Arabic, and the Arabic accounts
> were written by Persians or Turks, in whose pronunciation of Arabic
> the th-letter comes out as "s", possibly using the th-letter
> "hypercorrectly".
>
> Charles Polák
> mailto:charles.polak_at_bbc.co.uk
>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of
 Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
 in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily
 the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
 or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
 an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a
 searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. As a result,
 Messages sent to the list are available to the general public within days
 of posting.

Please post in "Plain Text" (help available at:
<http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/PlainText.html>).

To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at:

<http://www.it.cornell.edu/services/elist/howto/user/leave.cfm>

To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
<owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received on 2014-02-23 09:39:42