Re: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your 8/15/15 email from Gary Rogovin on 2015-08-25 (The Czernowitz-L Archive)

From: Gary Rogovin <grcpa1_at_gmail.com_at_nowhere.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:27:25 -0700
To: "Edgar Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>

8-25-15

Dear Mr. Hauster,

Sorry, but I can't make heads or tails out of the below scrambled message
(the 2nd one down dated Monday, August 24, 2015 11:50 PM).

In any event, I did receive your 4 th email of yesterday (see immediately
below) and will check out page 78 of 91 per your instruction and get back to
you. Thank you.

Bruce and Jerome: thank you both. I apologize if this back and forth
correspondence is creating a problem for either of you.

Gary Rogovin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Edgar Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>
To: "Gary Rogovin" <grcpa99_at_att.net>
Cc: "Czernowitz Discussion Group" <czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 11:45 PM
Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your
8/15/15 email

Gary...

Please let me redirect you to the page 78 out of 91, which displays the
Romanian census pages no. 120/121 you are looking for. But in order to make
it even more easier to use, I've posted all four pages for the Czernowitz
Department - including page no. 120/121 for the Czernowitz Municipality - at
our Ehpes.com Blog:

http://ehpes.com/blog1/2015/08/25/census-of-romania-for-the-year-1930-czernowitz-department/

I do hope these data will be useful to you!

Edgar Hauster

----- Original Message -----
From: "Edgar Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>
To: "Bruce Reisch" <bir1_at_nysaes.cornell.edu>; "Jerome Schatten"
<romers_at_shaw.ca>; "Gary Rogovin" <grcpa_at_att.net>
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 11:50 PM
Subject: FW: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your
8/15/15 email

Oops, sorry for confusion. The mail below ist the correct one to the List,
displaying the right link. Please disregard the one before. Thank
you! Edgar
Hauster ---------------------------------------- > From:
bconcept_at_hotmail.com > To: grcpa99_at_att.net > CC:
czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu > Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of
population of Cernauti: your 8/15/15 email > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015
08:47:36 +0200 > > Gary… > > Please let me redirect
you to the page 78 out of 91, which displays the Romanian census pages no.
120/121 you are looking for. But in order to make it even more easier to
use, I’ve posted all four pages for the Czernowitz Department - including
page no. 120/121 for the Czernowitz Municipality - at our Ehpes.com
Blog: > >
http://ehpes.com/blog1/2015/08/25/census-of-romania-for-the-year-1930-czernowitz-department/ > > I
do hope these data will be useful to you! > > Edgar
Hauster > > > ---------------------------------------- >
> From: grcpa99_at_att.net > > To: bconcept_at_hotmail.com >
> CC: czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu > > Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Being
Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your 8/15/15 email > >
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 23:17:20 -0700 > > > >
8-24-15 > > > > Dear Mr. Hauster, > > >
> I downloaded the original General Census of the Population of Romania
as per > > 29th December 1930 as per the link that you provided.
According to the > > "frame" (window top) there are 91 pages.
However if you scroll through the > > pages which are numbered in
Roman numerals, there are no pages 120/121. > > After page 109
(C1X) there are six pages of maps. The next page after the > > 6th
page of maps is numbered 125 (CXXV) and the bottom of that page says >
> "Volume 2". Then there are another eight pages of maps followed
immediately > > by page 143 (CXLIII). In addition, I don't read
Rumanian but I do read > > Spanish and can basically work my way
through the wording. > > > > Are you sure your reference
to pages 120/121 is correct? > > > > Can you please
provide assistance? > > > > Thank you Sir. >
> > > Gary Rogovin > > > > . >
> > > > > > > ----- Original
Message ----- > > From: "Edgar Hauster"
<bconcept_at_hotmail.com> > > To: "Gary Rogovin"
<grcpa1_at_gmail.com> > > Cc: "Czernowitz Discussion Group"
<czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu> > > Sent: Saturday, August 15,
2015 9:59 AM > > Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of
population of Cernauti: your > > 8/12/15 email > > >
> > > > > Gary... > > > > Let me make
one more attempt to get a response to your questions: > > >
> 1. The number of non-Jews for the Municipality of Czernowitz was not
a > > deduction from my side, but relies on the data out of the
General Census of > > the Population of Romania as per 29th
December 1930. > > > > 2. Please download the original
General Census of the Population of Romania > > as per 29th
December 1930 at > > > >
http://hauster.de/data/CensusRomania1930.pdf > > > > and
scroll down to pages 120/121. In the line no. 1 you'll find as total >
> number for population of the Municipality of Czernowitz/Municipiul
Cernauti > > 112,427, to be subdivided as follows: >
> > > 42,592 Jews > > 69,835 non-Jews, i. e. >
> > > 30,367 Romanians > > 568 Hungarians > >
16,359 Germans > > 1,521 Russians > > 11,130
Ruthenians > > 29 Serbs, Croatians, Slovenians > > 78
Bulgarians > > 226 Czechs, Slovacs > > 8,986 Poles >
> 11 Greeks > > 59 Armenians > > 30 Turks > >
19 Gagauz people > > 15 Gypsies > > 103 others >
> 334 non declared > > > > 3. Please check kine no. 1
column 33 on page 121. There you are going to > > find for the
Municipality of Czernowitz/Municipiul Cernauti 32,731 people, > >
who declared having Yiddish as mother tongue. > > > > 4. I
always assumed that all those people, who declared having Yiddish as >
> their mother tongue, were Jews. > > > > I do hope,
dear Gary, these answers to your four questions will be helpful > >
to you. Warmest wishes! > > > > Edgar Hauster >
> > > >
> ---------------------------------------- > >> From:
grcpa1_at_gmail.com > >> To: bconcept_at_hotmail.com > >>
CC: czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu > >> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Being
Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your > >> 8/12/15
email > >> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 17:23:17 -0700 >
>> > >> 8-14-15 > >> > >> Dear Mr.
Hauster, > >> > >> Thank you for your immediately
below email response. > >> > >> Perhaps it is I who
should say I'm sorry for the confusion, not yourself. >
>> > >> However, I do have the following
questions: > >> > >> 1) can you please tell me how
you deduced that 69, 835 were non Jews. I > >> understand that
you multiplied 112,487 X 62.10 % to arrive at 69,835. But > >>
how did you come up with 62.10%? > >> > >> 2)
specifically where does the 69,835 come from? Can you direct me to
the > >> census that has that specific breakdown and how you
calculated that > >> figure? > >> > >>
3) how did you arrive at the 32,731 figure? > >> >
>> 4) how do you know that none of the 32,731 (= 29.10 %) who
declared > >> Yiddish > >> as their mother tongue
were Jewish? Does that not seem unusual that out of > >> that
many Yiddish speaking persons, not one is a Jew? > >> >
>> Mr. Hauster, I do not mean to beat this to death. Your answers to
the > >> above > >> four questions should hopefully
provide the needed information to put this > >> all to
bed. > >> > >> Thank you Sir. >
>> > >> Respectfully, > >> Gary
Rogovin > >> > >> > >> >
>> > >> > >> > >> >
>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Edgar Hauster"
<bconcept_at_hotmail.com> > >> To: "Gary Rogovin"
<grcpa1_at_gmail.com> > >> Cc: "Czernowitz Discussion Group"
<czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August
12, 2015 11:47 AM > >> Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size
of population of Cernauti > >> > >> > >>
Gary... > >> > >> Sorry for confusion and let me try
to explain it in another way: In 1930 > >> the > >>
total population of the municipality of Cernauti (Czernowitz), i. e.
the > >> urban population, added up to > >> >
>> 112,427 inhabitants, out of which > >> > >>
42,592 (= 37.90 %) were Jews, > >> 69,835 (= 62.10 %) were
non-Jews. > >> > >> The summation of the three
figures (42,592 + 32,731 + 42,932) DOESN'T WORK > >> since these
figures stand for the answer on three different questions, > >>
raised by the interviewers: > >> > >> What is your
nativity? 42,592 (= 37.90 %) declared themselves being > >>
Jewish. > >> What is your monther tongue? 32,731 (= 29.10 %)
declared Yiddish as mother > >> tongue. > >> What is
your religion? 42,932 (= 38.20 %) declared Mozaic religion. >
>> > >> I do hope now, after mentioning the number of
non-Jews (69,835 = 62.10 %) > >> explicitly, the calculation
becomes much more understandable. Sorry once > >> again for
confusion. > >> > >> Edgar Hauster >
>> > >> >
>> ---------------------------------------- > >>> From:
grcpa1_at_gmail.com > >>> To: bconcept_at_hotmail.com >
>>> CC: czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu > >>> Subject: Re:
[Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti > >>>
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:07:45 -0700 > >>> >
>>> 8-12-15 > >>> > >>> Mr.
Hauster, > >>> > >>> Thank you for your reply.
However, I still cannot reconcile the 112,427 > >>> total to
your below breakdown of Jews AND non-Jews, out of which, >
>>> attention, > >>> multiple entries, >
>>> > >>> 42,592 (= 37.90 %) were Jewish, >
>>> 32,731 (= 29.10 %) declared Yiddish as mother tongue, >
>>> 42,932 (= 38,20 %) declared Mozaic religion. >
>>> > >>> I assume that by multiple entries, you are
referring to the above three > >>> (45,592
+32,731+42,932). > >>> > >>> Can you please
show me how you arrived at 112,247 (i.e. X+Y+Z+ etc. = > >>>
112,247) > >>> > >>> Thank you sir. >
>>> > >>> Gary Rogovin > >>> >
>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Edgar
Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com> > >>> To: "Gary
Rogovin" <grcpa1_at_gmail.com>; "alexander rosner" > >>>
<alexanderrosner_at_yahoo.de>; "Hardy Breier"
<hardy3_at_bezeqint.net>; "Cornel > >>> Fleming"
<cornel.fleming_at_virgin.net> > >>> Cc: "Czernowitz
Discussion Group" <czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu> > >>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 12:58 AM > >>> Subject: RE:
[Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti >
>>> > >>> > >>> Gary... >
>>> > >>> According to the "Census of Romania for
the Year 1930 for the Province of > >>> Bukovina" >
>>> > >>>
http://czernowitz.blogspot.de/2014/05/census-of-romania-for-year-1930.html >
>>> > >>> the TOTAL population of the municipality
of Cernauti (Czernowitz), i. e. > >>> the >
>>> URBAN population, was in 1930: > >>> >
>>> 112,427 Jews AND non-Jews, out of which, attention, multiple
entries, > >>> > >>> 42,592 (= 37.90 %) were
Jewish, > >>> 32,731 (= 29.10 %) declared Yiddish as mother
tongue, > >>> 42,932 (= 38,20 %) declared Mozaic
religion. > >>> > >>> The Province of Bukovina
in total was subdivided in 5 departments (URBAN > >>>
AND > >>> RURAL POPULATION), namely: >
>>> > >>> 94,816 for the Campulung Department out of
which 7,738 (= 8.20 %) were > >>> Jewish, >
>>> 306,194 for the Cernauti Department out of which 51,247 (=
16.70 %) were > >>> Jewish, > >>> 160,778 for
the Radauti Department out of which 11,508 (= 7.20 %) were >
>>> Jewish, > >>> 169,894 for the Storojinet
Department out of which 15,322 (= 9.00 %) were > >>>
Jewish, > >>> 121,327 for the Suceava Department out of which
6,677 (= 5.50 %) were > >>> Jewish, >
>>> > >>> 92,492 (= 10,80 %) were Jewish out of a
total population of 853,009 for > >>> the >
>>> Province of Bukovina. Among the non-Jews were: >
>>> > >>> 379,691 Romanians (= 44.50 %) >
>>> 11,881 Hungarians (= 1.40 %) > >>> 75,533
Germans (= 8.90 %) > >>> 7,948 Russians (= 0.90 %) >
>>> 236,130 Ruthenians (= 27.70 %) > >>> 63 Serbs,
Croatians, Slovenians (less than 0.10 %) > >>> 133 Bulgarians
(less than 0.10 %) > >>> 671 Czechs, Slovacs (less than 0.10
%) > >>> 30,580 Poles (= 3.60 %) > >>> 12,437
Hutsuls (= 1.50 %) > >>> 23 Greeks (less than 0.10 %) >
>>> 1 Albanian (less than 0.10 %) > >>> 260
Armenians (less than 0.10 %) > >>> 49 Turks (less than 0.10
%) > >>> 28 Gaguz people (less than 0.10 %) >
>>> 2,164 Gypsies (= 0.30 %) > >>> 2,317 others (=
0.30 %) > >>> 608 non declared (less than 0.10 %) >
>>> > >>> These figures make clear, why many of us
refer to Czernowitz as a "Jewish > >>> city", while the
Jewish share of the population for the Bukovina in total >
>>> was just over 10 %. I do hope these data will be helpful to you
(and > >>> others) > >>> and illustrate the
multiethnicity of Bukovina. > >>> > >>> Edgar
Hauster >
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Received on 2015-08-28 13:28:15