Re: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your 8/15/15 email from Bruce Reisch on 2015-08-25 (The Czernowitz-L Archive)

From: Bruce Reisch <bruce.reisch_at_cornell.edu_at_nowhere.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 20:18:58 +0000
To: Gary Rogovin <grcpa1_at_gmail.com>, Edgar Hauster <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>

Hi Gary,

The scrambled message wasn’t posted to the list. The only thing relevant
to further discussion is the message (corrected as Edgar suggested)
directly below yours, dated Aug 24, 2015 11:45 PM.

Bruce

On 8/25/15, 13:27, "Gary Rogovin" <grcpa1_at_gmail.com> wrote:

>8-25-15
>
>Dear Mr. Hauster,
>
>Sorry, but I can't make heads or tails out of the below scrambled message
>(the 2nd one down dated Monday, August 24, 2015 11:50 PM).
>
>In any event, I did receive your 4 th email of yesterday (see immediately
>below) and will check out page 78 of 91 per your instruction and get back
>to
>you. Thank you.
>
>Bruce and Jerome: thank you both. I apologize if this back and forth
>correspondence is creating a problem for either of you.
>
>Gary Rogovin
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Edgar Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>
>To: "Gary Rogovin" <grcpa99_at_att.net>
>Cc: "Czernowitz Discussion Group" <czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 11:45 PM
>Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your
>8/15/15 email
>
>
>
>Gary...
>
>Please let me redirect you to the page 78 out of 91, which displays the
>Romanian census pages no. 120/121 you are looking for. But in order to
>make
>it even more easier to use, I've posted all four pages for the Czernowitz
>Department - including page no. 120/121 for the Czernowitz Municipality -
>at
>our Ehpes.com Blog:
>
>http://ehpes.com/blog1/2015/08/25/census-of-romania-for-the-year-1930-czer
>nowitz-department/
>
>I do hope these data will be useful to you!
>
>Edgar Hauster
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Edgar Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>
>To: "Bruce Reisch" <bir1_at_nysaes.cornell.edu>; "Jerome Schatten"
><romers_at_shaw.ca>; "Gary Rogovin" <grcpa_at_att.net>
>Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 11:50 PM
>Subject: FW: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your
>8/15/15 email
>
>
>Oops, sorry for confusion. The mail below ist the correct one to the
>List,
>displaying the right link. Please disregard the one before. Thank
>you! Edgar
>Hauster ---------------------------------------- > From:
>bconcept_at_hotmail.com > To: grcpa99_at_att.net > CC:
>czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu > Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size
>of
>population of Cernauti: your 8/15/15 email > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015
>08:47:36 +0200 > > Gary… > > Please let me
>redirect
>you to the page 78 out of 91, which displays the Romanian census pages
>no.
>120/121 you are looking for. But in order to make it even more easier to
>use, I’ve posted all four pages for the Czernowitz Department - including
>page no. 120/121 for the Czernowitz Municipality - at our Ehpes.com
>Blog: > >
>http://ehpes.com/blog1/2015/08/25/census-of-romania-for-the-year-1930-czer
>nowitz-department/ > > I
>do hope these data will be useful to you! > > Edgar
>Hauster > > >
>---------------------------------------- >
>> From: grcpa99_at_att.net > > To: bconcept_at_hotmail.com >
>> CC: czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu > > Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Being
>Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your 8/15/15 email > >
>Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 23:17:20 -0700 > > > >
>8-24-15 > > > > Dear Mr. Hauster, > > >
>> I downloaded the original General Census of the Population of
>Romania
>as per > > 29th December 1930 as per the link that you provided.
>According to the > > "frame" (window top) there are 91 pages.
>However if you scroll through the > > pages which are numbered
>in
>Roman numerals, there are no pages 120/121. > > After page 109
>(C1X) there are six pages of maps. The next page after the > >
>6th
>page of maps is numbered 125 (CXXV) and the bottom of that page
>says >
>> "Volume 2". Then there are another eight pages of maps followed
>immediately > > by page 143 (CXLIII). In addition, I don't read
>Rumanian but I do read > > Spanish and can basically work my way
>through the wording. > > > > Are you sure your
>reference
>to pages 120/121 is correct? > > > > Can you please
>provide assistance? > > > > Thank you Sir. >
>> > > Gary Rogovin > > > > . >
>> > > > > > > ----- Original
>Message ----- > > From: "Edgar Hauster"
><bconcept_at_hotmail.com> > > To: "Gary Rogovin"
><grcpa1_at_gmail.com> > > Cc: "Czernowitz Discussion Group"
><czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu> > > Sent: Saturday, August 15,
>2015 9:59 AM > > Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of
>population of Cernauti: your > > 8/12/15 email >
>> >
>> > > > > Gary... > > > > Let me
>make
>one more attempt to get a response to your questions: >
>> >
>> 1. The number of non-Jews for the Municipality of Czernowitz was not
>a > > deduction from my side, but relies on the data out of the
>General Census of > > the Population of Romania as per 29th
>December 1930. > > > > 2. Please download the original
>General Census of the Population of Romania > > as per 29th
>December 1930 at > > > >
>http://hauster.de/data/CensusRomania1930.pdf > > > >
>and
>scroll down to pages 120/121. In the line no. 1 you'll find as
>total >
>> number for population of the Municipality of Czernowitz/Municipiul
>Cernauti > > 112,427, to be subdivided as follows: >
>> > > 42,592 Jews > > 69,835 non-Jews, i. e. >
>> > > 30,367 Romanians > > 568 Hungarians >
>>
>16,359 Germans > > 1,521 Russians > > 11,130
>Ruthenians > > 29 Serbs, Croatians, Slovenians > > 78
>Bulgarians > > 226 Czechs, Slovacs > > 8,986
>Poles >
>> 11 Greeks > > 59 Armenians > > 30 Turks >
>>
>19 Gagauz people > > 15 Gypsies > > 103 others >
>> 334 non declared > > > > 3. Please check kine no.
>1
>column 33 on page 121. There you are going to > > find for the
>Municipality of Czernowitz/Municipiul Cernauti 32,731 people, >
>>
>who declared having Yiddish as mother tongue. > > > >
>4. I
>always assumed that all those people, who declared having Yiddish
>as >
>> their mother tongue, were Jews. > > > > I do hope,
>dear Gary, these answers to your four questions will be helpful >
>>
>to you. Warmest wishes! > > > > Edgar Hauster >
>> > > >
>> ---------------------------------------- > >> From:
>grcpa1_at_gmail.com > >> To: bconcept_at_hotmail.com >
>>>
>CC: czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu > >> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Being
>Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti: your > >> 8/12/15
>email > >> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 17:23:17 -0700 >
>>> > >> 8-14-15 > >> > >> Dear
>Mr.
>Hauster, > >> > >> Thank you for your immediately
>below email response. > >> > >> Perhaps it is I
>who
>should say I'm sorry for the confusion, not yourself. >
>>> > >> However, I do have the following
>questions: > >> > >> 1) can you please tell me
>how
>you deduced that 69, 835 were non Jews. I > >> understand
>that
>you multiplied 112,487 X 62.10 % to arrive at 69,835. But >
>>>
>how did you come up with 62.10%? > >> > >> 2)
>specifically where does the 69,835 come from? Can you direct me to
>the > >> census that has that specific breakdown and how you
>calculated that > >> figure? > >> >
>>>
>3) how did you arrive at the 32,731 figure? > >> >
>>> 4) how do you know that none of the 32,731 (= 29.10 %) who
>declared > >> Yiddish > >> as their mother tongue
>were Jewish? Does that not seem unusual that out of > >> that
>many Yiddish speaking persons, not one is a Jew? > >> >
>>> Mr. Hauster, I do not mean to beat this to death. Your answers
>to
>the > >> above > >> four questions should
>hopefully
>provide the needed information to put this > >> all to
>bed. > >> > >> Thank you Sir. >
>>> > >> Respectfully, > >> Gary
>Rogovin > >> > >> > >> >
>>> > >> > >> > >> >
>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Edgar
>Hauster"
><bconcept_at_hotmail.com> > >> To: "Gary Rogovin"
><grcpa1_at_gmail.com> > >> Cc: "Czernowitz Discussion
>Group"
><czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August
>12, 2015 11:47 AM > >> Subject: RE: [Cz-L] Being
>Rumanian/size
>of population of Cernauti > >> > >> >
>>>
>Gary... > >> > >> Sorry for confusion and let me
>try
>to explain it in another way: In 1930 > >> the >
>>>
>total population of the municipality of Cernauti (Czernowitz), i. e.
>the > >> urban population, added up to >
>>> >
>>> 112,427 inhabitants, out of which > >> >
>>>
>42,592 (= 37.90 %) were Jews, > >> 69,835 (= 62.10 %) were
>non-Jews. > >> > >> The summation of the three
>figures (42,592 + 32,731 + 42,932) DOESN'T WORK > >> since
>these
>figures stand for the answer on three different questions, >
>>>
>raised by the interviewers: > >> > >> What is
>your
>nativity? 42,592 (= 37.90 %) declared themselves being > >>
>Jewish. > >> What is your monther tongue? 32,731 (= 29.10 %)
>declared Yiddish as mother > >> tongue. > >> What
>is
>your religion? 42,932 (= 38.20 %) declared Mozaic religion. >
>>> > >> I do hope now, after mentioning the number of
>non-Jews (69,835 = 62.10 %) > >> explicitly, the calculation
>becomes much more understandable. Sorry once > >> again for
>confusion. > >> > >> Edgar Hauster >
>>> > >> >
>>> ---------------------------------------- > >>>
>From:
>grcpa1_at_gmail.com > >>> To: bconcept_at_hotmail.com >
>>>> CC: czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu > >>> Subject:
>Re:
>[Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti > >>>
>Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:07:45 -0700 > >>> >
>>>> 8-12-15 > >>> > >>> Mr.
>Hauster, > >>> > >>> Thank you for your
>reply.
>However, I still cannot reconcile the 112,427 > >>> total
>to
>your below breakdown of Jews AND non-Jews, out of which, >
>>>> attention, > >>> multiple entries, >
>>>> > >>> 42,592 (= 37.90 %) were Jewish, >
>>>> 32,731 (= 29.10 %) declared Yiddish as mother
>tongue, >
>>>> 42,932 (= 38,20 %) declared Mozaic religion. >
>>>> > >>> I assume that by multiple entries, you
>are
>referring to the above three > >>> (45,592
>+32,731+42,932). > >>> > >>> Can you please
>show me how you arrived at 112,247 (i.e. X+Y+Z+ etc. = >
>>>>
>112,247) > >>> > >>> Thank you sir. >
>>>> > >>> Gary Rogovin >
>>>> >
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From:
>"Edgar
>Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com> > >>> To: "Gary
>Rogovin" <grcpa1_at_gmail.com>; "alexander rosner" >
>>>>
><alexanderrosner_at_yahoo.de>; "Hardy Breier"
><hardy3_at_bezeqint.net>; "Cornel > >>> Fleming"
><cornel.fleming_at_virgin.net> > >>> Cc: "Czernowitz
>Discussion Group" <czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu> > >>>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 12:58 AM > >>> Subject:
>RE:
>[Cz-L] Being Rumanian/size of population of Cernauti >
>>>> > >>> > >>> Gary... >
>>>> > >>> According to the "Census of Romania for
>the Year 1930 for the Province of > >>> Bukovina" >
>>>> > >>>
>http://czernowitz.blogspot.de/2014/05/census-of-romania-for-year-1930.html
> >
>>>> > >>> the TOTAL population of the
>municipality
>of Cernauti (Czernowitz), i. e. > >>> the >
>>>> URBAN population, was in 1930: > >>> >
>>>> 112,427 Jews AND non-Jews, out of which, attention, multiple
>entries, > >>> > >>> 42,592 (= 37.90 %)
>were
>Jewish, > >>> 32,731 (= 29.10 %) declared Yiddish as
>mother
>tongue, > >>> 42,932 (= 38,20 %) declared Mozaic
>religion. > >>> > >>> The Province of
>Bukovina
>in total was subdivided in 5 departments (URBAN > >>>
>AND > >>> RURAL POPULATION), namely: >
>>>> > >>> 94,816 for the Campulung Department out
>of
>which 7,738 (= 8.20 %) were > >>> Jewish, >
>>>> 306,194 for the Cernauti Department out of which 51,247 (=
>16.70 %) were > >>> Jewish, > >>> 160,778
>for
>the Radauti Department out of which 11,508 (= 7.20 %) were >
>>>> Jewish, > >>> 169,894 for the Storojinet
>Department out of which 15,322 (= 9.00 %) were > >>>
>Jewish, > >>> 121,327 for the Suceava Department out of
>which
>6,677 (= 5.50 %) were > >>> Jewish, >
>>>> > >>> 92,492 (= 10,80 %) were Jewish out of a
>total population of 853,009 for > >>> the >
>>>> Province of Bukovina. Among the non-Jews were: >
>>>> > >>> 379,691 Romanians (= 44.50 %) >
>>>> 11,881 Hungarians (= 1.40 %) > >>> 75,533
>Germans (= 8.90 %) > >>> 7,948 Russians (= 0.90 %) >
>>>> 236,130 Ruthenians (= 27.70 %) > >>> 63
>Serbs,
>Croatians, Slovenians (less than 0.10 %) > >>> 133
>Bulgarians
>(less than 0.10 %) > >>> 671 Czechs, Slovacs (less than
>0.10
>%) > >>> 30,580 Poles (= 3.60 %) > >>>
>12,437
>Hutsuls (= 1.50 %) > >>> 23 Greeks (less than 0.10
>%) >
>>>> 1 Albanian (less than 0.10 %) > >>> 260
>Armenians (less than 0.10 %) > >>> 49 Turks (less than
>0.10
>%) > >>> 28 Gaguz people (less than 0.10 %) >
>>>> 2,164 Gypsies (= 0.30 %) > >>> 2,317 others
>(=
>0.30 %) > >>> 608 non declared (less than 0.10 %) >
>>>> > >>> These figures make clear, why many of
>us
>refer to Czernowitz as a "Jewish > >>> city", while the
>Jewish share of the population for the Bukovina in total >
>>>> was just over 10 %. I do hope these data will be helpful to
>you
>(and > >>> others) > >>> and illustrate the
>multiethnicity of Bukovina. > >>> > >>>
>Edgar
>Hauster >
>>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Received on 2015-08-28 13:28:16