Dear all,
May I remember you that on the very beginning of this long threat was my post about the celebration of Ukraine's independence in Czernowitz and its impact on the presevation of Jewish heritage and rebirth of Jewish life. In response some list members were eager to equate Ukrainian independence with Bandera, Petlura and Khmelnitski and from then on the discussion was meandering around the topic of Ukrainian nationalism.
Those who gave the discussion this turn may not know how much Ukrainian nationalists and Putin's propaganda would united join their view and applaude them.
Not only I was present in Czernowitz during the celebration but also other list members, and none of us ran into hordes of Banderites or saw anything that was praising them as heroes.
May I remember you on some facts:
Not only Petlura's soldiers commited pogroms but also Poles when they captured Lviv (Lwow, Lemberg), the Whites when they fought the Bolsheviks, and from Isaac Babel's book about the Red Cavalry you may learn what happened when the Bolsheviks invaded Galicia. How does it come that only Petlura made it into some peoples awareness?
It was said the Holocaust took place in Ukraine. Does that mean the Holocaust was commited by Ukrainians? During the war there was no Ukrainian statehood. Ukrainian lands were split in occupation zones between Germany, Romania and Hungary. First of all the occupation forces have to be held responsible for what was happening. Without doubt there was collaboration of Ukrainian nationalists with the German occupants at the beginning and the end of the occupation - with all the well known cruelties. But there was also collaboration in France, Belgium, the Netherlands and all other by Germany occupied countries. I have never heared that because of that somebody questioned the right of France, Belgium, the Netherlands or any other country to have independant statehood nor are they predominantly identified with collaboration. May I also remember you that millions of Ukrainians fought in the Red Army and millions were deported as slave workers into the Reich - much more than ever joined OUN or UPA.
All of this does not make Ukrainians better people, but it makes them also not worse than others.
What we face today in Ukraine is a contradictious development. While a vast majority tends to the West and to Western values there is on the other hand an active group of historians - none of them with any international reputation - and nationalist politicians, who have some support in the presidential administration and other institunional bodies since the presidency of Victor Yushtshenko. They are the forces behind the controversal "decommunization law" and the quoted renaming of Moscow Prospect into Bandera Prospect in Kyiv - in particular I'm speaking about Volodymyr Viatrovych, director of Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance. Hi-ranking Ukrainian academics and human rights activists have protested against these decisions. We already know comparable developments from other decolonization processes when the British, the Spanish and the French empires collapsed. And nothing else but a decolonization processes we face in Ukraine today - with all its troubles and errors.
If you like to know what a majority of Ukrainians thinks about Jewish-Ukrainian relations, I recommend to read the speech of Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko, held on 23 December 2015 in the Israeli parliament:
http://ukrainianjewishencounter.org/en/media1/media-kit/latest-news/15-latest-news/807-speech-of-the-president-of-ukraine-in-the-israeli-knesset-
Best,
Christian
Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. August 2016 um 08:05 Uhr
Von: "Hardy Breier" <hardy3_at_bezeqint.net>
An: "'Taylor, Miriam R'" <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>, "'Alexander Gelman'" <gelman.alexander_at_gmail.com>
Cc: "'Josefine Koch'" <josefineaz_at_gmail.com>, "'Christian Herrmann'" <cyberorange_at_gmx.de>, "'Czernowitz Mailing-Liste'" <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>
Betreff: RE: [Cz-L] Happy birthday Ukraine!
Yes Mimi,
And then they will begin loving us.
Passionately !
Hardy
-----Original Message-----
From: Taylor, Miriam R [mailto:mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu]
Sent: 28 August 2016 08:52
To: Alexander Gelman
Cc: Hardy Breier; Josefine Koch; Christian Herrmann; Czernowitz
Mailing-Liste
Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Happy birthday Ukraine!
I too am aware of the crimes committed by Bandera and his followers.
I lived in Czernowitz till the summer of 1945. Even though I was a child, I
heard and understood what the grown-ups were talking about.
Ukrainians still see Russia as their current greatest enemy and
historically Poland was also a great enemy! That is why they glorify
Chmielnitzki and Bandera. I doubt that many are aware of what these "heroes"
Did to Jews. I hope that in the near future things will change and they will
be Willing to acknowledge Ukrainian guilt in the murder of Jews in both The
17th and 20th century.
Mimi
Sent from my iPad
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of
Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily
the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
an associated web site at
http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a
searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. As a result,
Messages sent to the list are available to the general public within days
of posting.
Please post in "Plain Text" (help available at:
<
http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/PlainText.html>).
To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at:
<
http://www.it.cornell.edu/services/elist/howto/user/leave.cfm>
To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
<owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received on 2016-08-28 04:08:55