Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 12:18:27 +0000
To: Alan Gavurin <gavurin_at_gmail.com>
Hi Alan
A conundrum.
You are encouraging me to investigate the route of Austrian citizenship. The Romanian route is stagnating. Various excuses…
I never thought that joining the Czernowitz group would lead to such interesting conversations… 😊
Karin
From: Alan Gavurin <gavurin_at_gmail.com>
Sent: 26 January 2021 11:36
To: Karin Perrin <karin_at_karinp.co.uk>
Cc: Arthur von Czernowitz <vonczernowitz_at_yahoo.com>; czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu; glasgold_at_bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: [czernowitz-l] Applying for Romanian Citizenship - Legal Support
Thank you Karin & Arthur for raising the Austrian Citizenship question
Firstly, Karin it seems that you must have a chance to apply again to Austria having already once held citizenship. I think there is a significant element of restitution and nations trying to confront errors of the past in some of these recent changes to citizenship rules - also see Portugal and, to a lesser extent, Spain.
The issue of dual nationality is clearly important, especially to those of us in the UK who are looking to re-create our links to Europe after the terrible disaster of Brexit. I believe Romania does, Poland is not keen but may do so and Germany has now changed its rules to not allow it with non EU countries (like the UK post 2020) although if you are applying for German citizenship because it was lost as a result of Nazi oppression then you CAN apparently hold dual citizenship.
I have struggled with understanding the Austrian offer. I will try and look into it in more detail but it could be interesting. Does it matter that, after leaving Kolomya & Vijnita, my grandparents went to Germany and never lived in what is modern-day Austria?
My grandparents on my mother's side came from Kolomyja and Vijnita (Wiznitz) - the two towns are 50km apart but when they were born in 1908/1911 one was in the Austro-Hungarian province of Galicia and one was in the A-H province of Bukovina. Now both are in Ukraine (via USSR). In between WW1 & WW2 Vijnita was in Romania.
So we have been looking at Romanian citizenship (as I said previously) and also German citizenship as my mother was born there in 1938 but as my grandparents never became German citizens this is proving difficult.
So what is it to be?
[cid:image001.png_at_01D6F3DD.5925CDA0][cid:image002.png_at_01D6F3DD.5925CDA0][cid:image003.png_at_01D6F3DD.5925CDA0]
Happy to discuss this further with anyone who knows more about the Austrian option or wants to compare notes
Alan
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 at 11:09, Karin Perrin <karin_at_karinp.co.uk<mailto:karin_at_karinp.co.uk>> wrote:
Dear all
Just musing on the Austrian passport options….
Many many years ago, after living in the UK for many years, I became a UK citizen. At the time the Austrians (not members of the EU till 1995) asked me to sign a document giving up my Austrian citizenship “for ever” . (I had had Austrian citizenship since I was a child – I am not sure on what basis my father was able to get this after the war when the whole family was stateless after escaping Romania). The Austrian government, at the time I became a UK national (1980s), would not accept dual nationality. The UK had no problem with dual nationalities and I believe still does not. Just mentioning this in case it affects the route to Austrian citizenship – do they still refuse dual citizenship even if part of the EU now? On my mother’s side of the family we are indeed old “Austro Hungarians” so in principle Arthur’s idea might be a route I also could take, in search of a EU passport. But I personally might be blocked due to my “unpatriotic actions”!
Regards to all.
Karin
From: bounce-125331222-87608252_at_list.cornell.edu<mailto:bounce-125331222-87608252_at_list.cornell.edu> <bounce-125331222-87608252_at_list.cornell.edu<mailto:bounce-125331222-87608252_at_list.cornell.edu>> On Behalf Of Arthur von Czernowitz
Sent: 25 January 2021 13:55
To: Alan Gavurin <gavurin_at_gmail.com<mailto:gavurin_at_gmail.com>>
Cc: czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu<mailto:czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>; Gold-Glasberg, Ruth <glasgold_at_bellsouth.net<mailto:glasgold_at_bellsouth.net>>
Subject: Re: [czernowitz-l] Applying for Romanian Citizenship - Legal Support
Hello Alan
I believe that you and your brother are after an European passport.
I thing that there is another way, you can also try in obtaining an Austrian passport if you can prove that your grandfather had Austrian citizenship.
Do you speak Hebrew? If yes I could possibly help you with the Romanian route.
Arthur
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 25, 2021, at 3:21 AM, Alan Gavurin <gavurin_at_gmail.com<mailto:gavurin_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
Friends
Forgive me if this has been discussed before but my brother and I are considering applEying for Romanian citizenship because our late grandfather was born in Wiznitz/Vijnita/Vyzhnytsia in 1911
Have any of you gone down this path? I know of at least one other Czernowitzer who is.
Can any of you recommend a good Romanian lawyer who could help us.
I have already approached two Romanian lawyers - one says he does not take cases where the relatives come from outside current Romanian borders (ie present day Ukraine) and the other does not speak English so we are really struggling to understand the technicalities and I don't think Google Translate is helping very much
Any recommendations would be gratefully received
Alan
--
Alan Gavurin
London
UK
________________________________
________________________________
________________________________
________________________________
This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of
Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily
the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a
searchable archive of all messages posted to this list.
To send mail to the list, address it to <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu<mailto:Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>>.
To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions<https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris>.
To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu<mailto:owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu>
________________________________
--
Alan Gavurin
45 Orpington Road
Winchmore Hill
London
N21 3PL
(t) 020 8882 1423
(m) 07973 424357
*******************************************************************************
This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of
Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed
in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily
the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members
or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has
an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a
searchable archive of all messages posted to this list.
To send mail to the list, address it to <Czernowitz-L_at_cornell.edu>.
To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at
https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris
To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to:
owner-Czernowitz-L_at_list.cornell.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(image/png attachment: image001_png__size_9575__creation-date_)
(image/png attachment: image002_png__size_9024__creation-date_)
(image/png attachment: image003_png__size_6119__creation-date_)