RE: Vulgar boors

Dear John Hoenig,

Due the usage of my phrase within your e-mail I feel obliged to answer. As
well, I feel that the related issue is of everybody's (almost) interest.

By using the term "Reminders" I had no intention to instruct you or others
of anything, my meaning was to put a "reminder" (and that is my personal
opinion which I am entitle to) about our Jewish heritage and the central
point Israel is having (Or should have) in our life.

I was not against anybody, I was FOR the cause.

I agree that Mr. Stanley Brechner was using a vulgar language and my
personal opinion - Stanley - that you are owe us all, the whole site and its
members, an apology for using such language.
I hoped such an apology will clear the air for us all, Mr. John Hoenig
included.

On the other hand we have to take a hard look at the content of Mr. Brechner
posting. This is a different story.
I have found great interest reading his posting knowing that while he is
talking from the bottom of his heart, many of the issues raised are
warranted, true and to the point.
As one that born, raised and fought in Israel and then moved to Canada I was
able to develop a perspective view that is stemming from both worlds and
frankly I am greatly concerned from what I have seen regarding the Jewish
Diaspora.
During the past two years I have spent most of my free time surfing in the
most hard core Anti-Jewish, Anti-Semitic, Anti-Israel sites of the world, I
have contributed about 400 articles presenting and defending the
Jewish-Israeli point of view. To these days I am a part of 60.000 people
group of Jews those sending e-mail responses to any Anti-Semitic event
(Honest Reporting) about twice a week.
What alarmed me most is the huge number of JEWISH contributors in those
sites, presenting and justifying the Anti-Jewish, Anti-Semitic, Anti-Israel
point of view, while others are presenting a political correct kind of
behavior, most of them born and raised in North America.
As in any other case we must not generalize and I am sure that on every Jew
that happily demoting Jews and Israelis there are 5 others that are against
it and supporting the common Jewish view. Nevertheless the number of those
Jews brothers that are against us all is alarming.
So, to my observations the smoke Mr. Brechner is raising is hiding a real
fire behind.

Mr. Hoenig I am sure you are aware of the above situation and the validity
of Mr. Brechner posting in that regard. I truly would like to read your
response to the content.

As I noted in my previous posting and Mr. Brechner was pointing at, we the
second generations to our Czernowitz families are much value this heritage,
which is the reason we are here in this site in the first place.

Nevertheless, we are having additional purpose in being here and perusing
our heritage, we see our history as a living entity that will help us
passing our heritage, would it be Czernowitz or Jewish or both, to the next
generations.
In my view the tombstone of Czernowitz are not disconnected from our future,
or at least we would like to see them as such. The lists of the deceased
from Czernowitz and vicinity should not cease to exist while we will face
our creator, at the contrary, they should be carried on by our decedents,
being a part of the livings, and there is the real value.

The strength of the Jews along the history was in their unity, lets keep it
that way at least here.

Mr. Heonig I will be glad to see your contribution to this site in the
future.

Aaron Roll
Toronto
amroll_at_rogers.com


   


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-CZERNOWITZ-L_at_cornell.edu [mailto:owner-CZERNOWITZ-L_at_cornell.edu]
On Behalf Of John Hoenig
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 4:11 PM
To: CZERNOWITZ-L_at_cornell.edu
Subject: Vulgar boors

That does it! It's bad enough that some holier-than-thou boors have decided
that I need to be told how to be a responsible Jew. That for the past few
days I've been receiving a flood of emails that are supposed to be about
Czernowitz history and genealogy but that turn out to have nothing to do
with the subject. But now I receive an email from some jerk who has decided
that people who object to the list being highjacked should "go screw
yourselves". Why don't you go away and talk to people who want to
outcompete themselves for zealot of the year award? Leave us alone.

Well, somehow I doubt you're going to go away, and the list owner is
letting this get entirely out of hand. It's ugly, and it's vulgar.

So, please take my name OFF the list. I've had it.

And, for your information, I'm proud of my work defending Israel in the
media. I've worked long and hard at it. I don't need "reminders" about what
I should be doing. I shudder to think of the damage you might be causing
with your boorish behavior. I can only hope that you behave better - less
arrogantly - when you address the general public or heaven help us all.

John Hoenig

>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:26:48 -0500
>X-PH: V4.1_at_mailhub2
>From: AJTheatre_at_aol.com
>To: CZERNOWITZ-L_at_cornell.edu
>Subject: Brilliantly written letter
>X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0
>X-AOL-IP: 207.237.198.6
>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by elist02.mail.cornell.edu id
>i1AJkuPL014275
>Reply-To: AJTheatre_at_aol.com
>Sender: owner-CZERNOWITZ-L_at_cornell.edu
>
>Hi, my name is Stanley Brechner, and I joined this group about a year ago
>after exploring my roots on both sides of my father's family who came from
>Sadagura. And I have kept mainly silent, as most, while opening countless
>e-mails about this lost family and this lost heritage and, of course,
>gravestones, always gravestones.
>However, at the same time, I work in the arts and have been actively
>producing a documentary on the Holocaust from the perspective of religion:
>the old religion of Christianity and the new religion of Communism (those
>Jews who 'converted' to Communism and sat by silently as Pope Stalin signed

>a treaty with Hitler in 1939). At the same time, while it was never the
>original focus of the film and is itself for me enormously unappetizing, it

>also became about the relative apathy of Jews around the world on behalf
of
>their Romanian, Bukovinian and Galician co-religionists (among many
others),
>meaning the very same people we are all so assidiously trying to 'connect'
>to. This inactivity, unfortunately, was particularly strong by the American

>Jews, of which I am one. Some Americans were 'irked' at being forced into
>the spotlight and worried that protests on behalf of European Jews would
>result in 'American antisemitism.' Others simply felt those Jews 'over
>there' were all Bolshevi!
> ks and had made their own bed. Some, like the editors of the NY Times,
were
>appalled at the idea that Jews were Zionists and talked openly about a
>Jewish state, a ridiculous notion because: why should Jews 'stand out' or
>'particularize.' It embarassed them and didn't fit 'the program.' The
result
>is, as some Nazis testified to at the Nuremburg trials, they were
completely
>surprised at how easy it was to demonize, deport and murder 6 million,
>including close to 1 million Jewish children, thousands of whom came from
>Czernowitz and its environs. While Romania lost about 1/2 of its Jews, the
>Bukovina area was 'particularly' devastated.
>And that comes to my point. Here we are a group that spends time talking
>about gravestones, yet some are 'irked' about talking about an Israel under

>siege. It doesn't fit their political agenda while interested in
>'connecting' with the past of Bukovina. Some are 'irked' about talking
about
>the same antisemitism that is at the heart why many search for a heritage
>taken from us. Czernowitz cemeteries where gravestones and ancestors cannot

>be found because many of these ancestors aren't even buried. I find it
>extraordinary appalling.
>My grandparents and great-grandparents were forced to flee Sadagura with
>nothing on their backs in 1889 after living in the area for three hundred
>years, working as craftsmen. They were the victims of a slew of virulent
>antisemitic laws passed between 1869 and 1880 as well as pogroms. I am here

>to talk about it because, by chance, they fled to America while many others

>could not. That is the essence of my connection to Sadagura and this group,

>not some gravestone. The gravestones are living history, a living testament

>to the past and the future.
>To those 'irked' at Lucca's e-mail and attachment (which aside from its
>content is brilliantly written), let me say as delicately as I can: go
screw
>yourselves. Bravo to you Lucca! On to more gravestone lists.
>Best, Stanley Brechner
>
>
Received on 2004-02-11 07:54:51