RE: [Cz-L] Rescue Operation of Czernowitz Jews - A Joint Venture

Dear Marianne, Dear Iosif,

Thank you so much for joining this thread. Your contributions are most interesting and are bringing a new impetus to our discussion. I'm subscribing without restrictions to your statements and wish I could express myself as eloquent as you both do.

Marianne, you are writing: "...However we construe the multiple factors that converged to result in the deportation waivers, and whatever Schellhorn's role might have been, and whatever the importance of that morning meeting on October 15, the ca. 20000 waivers that were issued cannot responsibly be said to have been uniquely Schellhorn's accomplishment as this sentence does...."

Yes, that is - in my view too - the weak point in Dr. Hartwig Cremers's article, as there is no evidence whatsoever, that Schellhorn's intervention during the (verifiable) morning meeting on October 15, 1941, leaded on to this disproportional number of deportation waivers.

Iosif, you are writing: "...While it is not impossible that Schellhorn's stand was influenced by humanistic considerations, it is important to remember that his actions in October of 1941 were completely in line with the German policies of the time...."

Yes, no doubt about that, but that's the main reason to be inclined to accept, that Schellhorn's intervention was decisive, with respect to the reasoning for the waivers (as confirmed by Popovici/Calotescu), but not to their disproportional number (see above). Of course you are right in mentioning, that Schellhorn's motivation is still not, nor for me, beyond any reasonable doubt.

But, Marianne, Iosif and Hardy, let's assume for a single moment, that Schellhorn would have opposed to this exemption policy. He easily could have interfered each and any rescue operation by involving his Ambassador Manfred von Killinger and/or Eichmann's special delegate for Romania, Gustav Richter. The main reason for me to start this thread, was to demonstrate, that a rescue operation like this one, to this large extent was unconceivable without an active or at least a tacit implication of the German side. On the other hand, I take it for granted, that Dr. Traian Popovici's intervention was mainly humanitarian and Calotescu's/Marinescu's actions were mainly conducted by greed and facilitated by bribing.

Summerizing, we are facing, as always in real life, different factors - humanitarian, opportunistic, economic - determining the diferent decision makers and the outcome of the operation; thus the title, which I chose for our thread proves to be true: "Rescue Operation of Czernowitz Jews - A Joint Venture".

Hardy, you are quoting Dr. Traian Popovici's statement: "This is not the right place to describe the means through which I tried indirectly to influence the will of the Marshal who I didn't know and who lived so far from Czernowitz; but my efforts were successful." by asking: "Will we ever know what happened during these three fateful days?"

I don't know, whether will succeed to unravel the mystery, but Popovici left it, most probably had to leave it, in the dark and I'm positive, that our discussion could be a serious contribution in revealing the historical facts.

Warmest wishes to all of you, have an amazing turn of the year and a "Happy New Year"!

Edgar Hauster
Lent - The Netherlands

http://hauster.blogspot.com/

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> Subject: Re: [Cz-L] Rescue Operation of Czernowitz Jews - A Joint Venture
> From: mh2349_at_columbia.edu
> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:00:09 -0500
> CC: hardy3_at_bezeqint.net; mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu; vonczernowitz_at_yahoo.com; cornel.fleming_at_virgin.net; berti.glaubach_at_gmail.com; czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu; ashtur_at_netvision.net.il; gerhardrodica_at_aol.com
> To: bconcept_at_hotmail.com; czernowitz-l_at_cornell.edu
>
> Edgar, Many thanks for taking a look at Ghosts of Home. Leo and I have been following your posts about Schellhorn and the ensuing correspondence with enormous interest and have read the Cremer article, but we are traveling and away from our other sources, especially the full text of Carp in the original Romanian and the excellent annotated French translation by Alexandra Laignel-Lavastine. We have also not yet had the chance to read the recent articles by Hausleitner and Solonari. We will write a fuller response to these interesting developments as soon as we do, but, just briefly:
>
> 1. It is clear that Cremer's main source is Schellhorn himself, and thus his statements are difficult to check. The first sentence of his second paragraph definitely gives one pause: "Above all, he saved about 20000 people from deportation which would have meant massive death." However we construe the multiple factors that converged to result in the deportation waivers, and whatever Schellhorn's role might have been, and whatever the importance of that morning meeting on October 15, the ca. 20000 waivers that were issued cannot responsibly be said to have been uniquely Schellhorn's accomplishment as this sentence does.
>
> 2. There is multiple evidence that there were bribes. We write about it in Ghosts of Home. I believe, with many of you, that Popovici himself meant to have the process be completely honest and above board and that he himself did not take bribes. But someone took bribes, that is absolutely clear, and likely, Popovici did not know that this happened, or did not want to know. We actually discussed this when we are all together in 2006, and a number of you confirmed that you knew about bribes.
>
> More soon, and please do keep sharing personal stories, they are invaluable as evidence.
>
> happy New year,
>
> Marianne
> On Dec 28, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Edgar Hauster wrote:
>
> > First of all, thank you so much, Gerhard, Asher, Mimi and Arthur for your most impressive contributions! That's, what we are looking for, eyewitness reports, facts and figures!
> >
> > Hardy, let me try to give an answer to you, by quoting Marianne Hirsch and Leo Spitzer (Ghosts of Home - The Afterlife of Czernowitz in Jewish Memory, p. 191):
> >
> > "One name that comes up quite often in connection to Cernauti in this period [June 1942] is that of Lieutenant Stere Marinescu, head of the Office of Jewish Affairs II. This man and his coworkers worked under the governor and took massive bribes both locally, from individual Jews, and from Jewish organizations in Bucharest, always promising not to organize further deportations and assuring the safety of Jews remeining of Cernauti. Many of those who bribed him individually were deported so as not to be able to testify to his corruption."
> >
> > Fortunately, his plans finally didn't work out
> >
> > http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=883&dat=19450601&id=abEuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HWEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1787,4189005
> >
> > but let's continue by quoting Marianne Hirsch and Leo Spitzer (Ghosts of Home - The Afterlife of Czernowitz in Jewish Memory, p. 191):
> >
> > "It is possible that Marinescu himself, and not directive from Bucharest, ordered the June 1942 deportations of those four thousand Jews who only had Popovici authorizations. The deportation orders were signed by the governor, but Marinescu himself carried out the evacuations with great brutality"
> >
> > You'll find the basis for this statement at Matatias Carp, Holocaust in Romania, Facts and Documents of the Annihilation of Romania's Jews 1940-1944, pp. 201-222, quoted at:
> >
> > http://www.holocaustrevealed.org/_domain/holocaustrevealed.org/Romania/Matatias/Transnistria6.htm
> >
> > In my eyes, the events proceeded completely chaotically in October 1941, no means of transportation were available in due time, no structures were established, even not (yet) for bribing, in marked contrast to June 1942, when the maximum bribing profit could be realized, as the Stere Marinescu case is demonstrating.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Edgar Hauster
> > Lent - The Netherlands

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Received on 2011-12-29 07:18:39