Re: [Cz-L] They are at it again - Ukraine's nationalists protest Jewish pilgrimage

Mimi,

Firstly, the primary Chasidim in Boro Park, Brooklyn NY, are Bobover,
originating in Galicia, Poland, not Wiznitzer, which is the Vizhnitz Hasidim
taken from the name of a village in Vyzhnytsia which is in the Ukraine.

Regarding "Your assertions: the old hatred, intolerance and prejudice passed
down from one generation to the next, is still there is itself an expression
of prejudice", Miriam, I beg to differ. It is an observation based on fact
and reality. Your accusation of reverse discrimination is, to put it mildly,
ridiculous. Were I a Holocaust survivor and spoke to the hatred, intolerance
and prejudice of Nazis toward Jews, would that be an expression of prejudice
on my part towards Nazis? Hardly!

I do wholeheartedly agree with you that "As guests it behooves us to behave
decently. We need not be perfect human beings, but our behavior has to be
within the bounds of what is acceptable in the place we visit".

The question I ask you is: why are there now no (or very few) Jews living in
the Ukraine? It is over 66 years since the end of WWII and neither surviving
former Ukrainian Jews nor their descendants, have come back to live in that
geographic area that Jews lived and prospered in for centuries? The same is
true for Poland. The reason is obvious; Jews are not wanted. You yourself
had a difficult time getting cooperation from the CZ City Council and
officials just to put up the Traian Popovichi plaque. I truly hope, however,
that your distinguished efforts in that endeavor opened a path to greater
tolerance and the winning over of hearts and minds in their perception of
"Jews".

Miriam, regarding your comment in quoting me: "You ask: What Jew is a guest
in the Ukraine? Do you mean to say, that all Jews originated in the Ukraine?
To follow your logic, we could say that all Americans are not guests: in
England, Ireland, Scotland, Holland, Italy, Germany....".
Miriam, I can only say that your logic is either illogical or you did not
comprehend what I said. Of course I am not saying that all Jews originated
in the Ukraine. What I am saying is that Jews are "visitors" to the Ukraine
because there is no longer a permanent Jewish presence there and that in
turn is because the Jews were exterminated by the Nazis and their Ukrainian
cohorts during the war and are in fact neither encouraged to return nor
wanted, by the Ukrainians.

It would be very interesting to hear directly from you, who feel and write
so strongly about Jewish Czernowitz history and traditions and along with
Hardy Breier, are the two most prolific writers to the CZ-L forum, why
neither your family nor yourself (being a young girl) returned to live there
after the war ended. Could it be for fear the post war Ukrainians would kill
you?

Respectfully,
Gary Rogovin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam Taylor" <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>
To: "Gary Rogovin" <grcpa_at_att.net>
Cc: "Anny Matar" <annymatar_at_gmail.com>; "Czernowitz Genealogy and History"
<czernowitz-l_at_list.cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Cz-L] They are at it again - Ukraine's nationalists protest
Jewish pilgrimage

> Gary,
>
> The chasidim of rabbi Nachman of Bratslav are known
> to misbehave and you cannot compare them to the Wiznitzer
> chasidim of Borow Park. Some young Chasidim in Israel are
> known to behave as ruffians as well. Your assertions:
> "the old hatred, intolerence and prejudice passed down
> from one generation to the next, is still there"
> is itself an expression of prejudice.
>
> As to Czernowitz: We are all of us now, guests in this city
> and in the Ukraine as a whole. We do NOT live there.
> As guests it behooves us to behave decently. We need not be
> perfect human beings, but our behavior has to be within
> the bounds of what is acceptable in the place we visit.
>
> You ask: "What Jew is a guest in the Ukraine?"
> Do you mean to say, that all Jews originated in the Ukraine?
> To follow your logic, we could say that all Americans are not guests:
> in England, Ireland, Scotland, Holland, Italy, Germany....
>
> Mimi
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Received on 2011-10-06 08:13:48