[Cz-L] Re: Ghetto perimeter fence

Hello Iosif, Hello All,

I have now compared the Romanian text of the ghetto directive a copy of
which was obtained by Leo from the microfilms in the US Holocaust Memorial
Museum, with the German text, from the Gold book, and its English
translation, sent to us by Iosif and have come to the conclusion that some
terms in the Romanian version, have probably been incorrectly translated,
into English.

For instance, where it says in Romanian: "trece prin spatele cartierului
deviziei", the German says: "durch das Viertel der Division verlauft"
and in English: "through the Division Quarter"

I think that the correct translation is:

"goes from the space (location) of the quarters of the division (meaning the
location where the military division is staying).

In some cases I do not know the location of buildings or streets which are
mentioned in the Romanian order. Or I am unable to find them on the 1941
Stadtplan.
Do any of you know where the following are:

Str. Pocutiei
Str. Anton Silvestru
Str. Elena Doamna
Str. Wickenhauser
Str. Vorobchevici
Liceul si Conservatorul on the str. Prezan
Comendatura Politei

When I left Czernowitz in 1945, I did not know Romanian, I knew the street
names only in German and police headquarters, military division quarters and
the like did not interest me.

Thanks for any help,

Mimi

On 2/14/11 10:57 AM, "I Vaisman" <iosif.vaisman_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> German translation:
> http://www.czernowitz.org/sources/ghetto_order_1941_gold_2_50.jpg
>
> English translation from German:
> http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/bukowinabook/buk2_049.html
>
> Iosif
>
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Miriam Taylor <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu> wrote:
>> I think that Leo is right, there was no perimeter fence encircling the whole
>> ghetto, only those street intersections which controlled the access to and
>> from the ghetto had road blocks where the identity of people could be
>> checked. A fence could not be erected where a block of buildings was
>> partially in the ghetto because the fronts of the houses were on a ghetto
>> included street and another part of the same block of houses, was not part
>> of the ghetto, because the houses did not have their fronts on a street
>> included in the ghetto.
>>
>> The copy of the order of the creation of the ghetto, which was sent by Leo
>> and put up on the Ehpes website by Jerome, is in part not very clear and
>> also contains typing errors. Is there anyone who still knows Romanian very
>> well, who could translate it precisely?
>>
>> Does anyone know whether some archive in Romania or at Yad va-Shem has a
>> copy of the exact order as published?
>>
>> Mimi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/14/11 9:33 AM, "HARDY BREIER" <HARDY3_at_BEZEQINT.NET> wrote:
>>
>>> The Ghetto had road blocks and controlled gates.
>>>     What sense would these make if the hinterland was wide open ?
>>>     I did not see the eastern and northern ghetto limits and cannot
>>>    describe how the demarkation and control was enforced.
>>>     How could a cul de sac street be controlled just by an end block?
>>>      Maybe we have somebody who lived there and knows ?
>>> Hardy
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Leo Spitzer" <ls2307_at_columbia.edu>
>>> To: "I Vaisman" <iosif.vaisman_at_gmail.com>; "jerome schatten"
>>> <romers_at_shaw.ca>; "Edgar Hauster" <bconcept_at_hotmail.com>; "Miriam Taylor"
>>> <mirtaylo_at_indiana.edu>; "HARDY BREIER" <HARDY3_at_bezeqint.net>; "Arthur von
>>> Czernowitz" <vonczernowitz_at_yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: "Marianne Hirsch" <mh2349_at_columbia.edu>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 4:22 PM
>>> Subject: Ghetto perimeter fence
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear all:  There is a temptation to apply perimeter fencing paradigms
>>> elicited from German erected ghettos like Lodz and Warsaw to the Cernauti
>>> ghetto.  All of the oral accounts that we collected, however, as well as
>>> memoirs we have read, do not speak about a perimeter fence around this
>>> ghetto.  Instead, they indicate that the end-points of the designated
>>> streets and side streets with potential access to ghetto streets were closed
>>> off with barbed wire and guarded by gendarmes.  This makes sense, given the
>>> overall brevity of the existence of the Cernauti ghetto and the fact that
>>> many streets bordering on or seemingly enclosed by designated ghetto streets
>>> housed a sizable population of non-Jewish working and lower-middle class
>>> Ukrainians  and Romanians who would have been ghettoized by a perimeter
>>> fence as well.  So, while it is interesting to imagine a perimeter fence,
>>> none of the information historians use to ascertain evidence corroborates
>>> the actual existence of such a structure.
>>>     =
>>>
>>
>>
>>

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Received on 2011-02-14 11:00:44